David Hyde Pierce, the creator of the popular sitcom Frasier, has announced that he will not be returning to the new season of the show. The revival, which is set to premiere on Paramount Plus, will focus on the character of Frasier, who is a character who is both a supporting character on the American television sitcom Cheers and a character in the original series. The showrunners Chris Harris and Joe Cristalli discuss the show’s unique qualities, including Frasier’s role as a guest and his relationship with his cousin David.
The revival also features Kelsey Grammer, who is back and snobbish as ever in the first trailer for the show. Despite the less than impressive premiere, Frasier manages to establish its characters, settings, and relationships. The show was cancelled in 2003, but “Goodnight, Seattle” parts 1 and 2 ended the series in May 2004. The biggest difference between the old and new Frasier is its words, with the new series being mainly made up of new writers. The show is farce at the level of Neil Simon, Noël Coward, or PG Wodehouse, with a runaway train of wrongly entered rooms, cross-purpose conversations, and disastrous events.
In conclusion, the Frasier reboot on Paramount Plus has established its characters, settings, and relationships, but it has also faced criticism for its lack of original cast members and the fact that the show is primarily written by new writers.
📹 Frasier Is Bad, Actually
I don’t know what to do with those tossed salad and scrambled eggs. “A Touch of Class: A Frasier Retrospective”: …
Did the cast of Frasier get along?
The Frasier cast, including David Pierce, have been close and notably close. Grammer calls Pierce the brother he never had and he is godfather to Leeves’s son. Pierce has a rare mix of generosity, compassion, intelligence, and elegance, making everyone around him better. Joe Keenan, one of Frasier’s chief writers, praises Pierce for his technical virtuosity for comedy and emotional honesty. He helps give Frasier a tonal range that can swing from farce to heartbreak, making even the wildest flights of comic absurdity feel totally real.
Why did Daphne get so big on Frasier?
Daphne, a character in the show, gains 60 pounds after gaining weight, but her love for Niles blinds him until she falls to the floor. The weight problem was created to allow Leeves to continue working while pregnant. Daphne visits a spa for fat people and returns with her figure restored. Her therapist explains that she over-eated to create distance between herself and Niles, fearing she wouldn’t be able to live up to his lofty expectations.
In Season 10, Daphne becomes a U. S. citizen, marrying Niles in a private ceremony in Reno, Nevada. The rest of Season 10 and early Season 11 show Daphne and Niles adjusting to their new life as a married couple. They have their first child, David, in the final episode, “Goodnight, Seattle”, named after the show’s co-creator David Angell who died in the September 11 attacks.
Daphne grew up in a dysfunctional family, and her long-winded tales often leave the Cranes perplexed. The first time one of her family members appears on the show is in the season 7 episode “Dark Side of the Moon”, where Donny surprises Daphne with a visit from her brother, Simon. Her favorite brother, Stephen, never appears until the final episode. Daphne’s mother makes her first appearance in “Something Borrowed, Someone Blue”, while her father only makes his debut in season 9.
How was Frasier so rich?
Frasier, a character in the original show, was credited with his wealth due to his successful private practice in Boston and smart investments. His brother, Niles, may have been even wealthier due to his own practice and marriage to Maris. The upcoming Frasier reboot on Paramount+ will address Frasier’s life in the last two decades and how he has sustained his lifestyle. Kelsey Grammer will reprise his iconic role in the reboot, which will mark the character’s fourth act.
Frasier’s new work as he resettles in New England is uncertain, but it shouldn’t matter as he has been wealthy. Writer and executive producer Joe Keenan explained Frasier’s wealth in the original show despite being a local radiotherapist, stating that Frasier was already wealthy before he moved back to the Pacific Northwest.
Did Frasier go to Harvard or Oxford?
Frasier, a renowned psychiatrist, has an M. D. and Ph. D. in psychiatry and completed his medical residency in psychiatry. He speaks French, German, Italian, and Spanish, but apparently learned German after the first two seasons. In Cheers, Frasier is known for his ability to understand Québécois French, Woody, and German.
Frasier’s hobbies include playing the piano, composing music, singing, gourmet cooking, chess, collecting fine art, antiquing, home decorating, reading, writing short stories and plays, enjoying fine dining, his wine club, and squash. He is sometimes described as a psychologist in Cheers, but this may have been a mistake on the part of the characters. Frasier’s overconfidence in his abilities is often exploited for comedic effect, such as in “They’re Playing Our Song” where the theme song Frasier composes for his radio show is mocked by his friends and family.
Despite these incidents, Frasier remains consistently egomaniacal throughout the series. His legitimate talent in many endeavors is not entirely without justification, as he does have legitimate talent in many of the endeavors he pursues, but rarely to the level that he claims.
In politics, Frasier appears to lean more on the liberal side, as seen in the episode “The Candidate”, where he expresses his distaste for conservative Congressional candidate Holden Thorpe. In response, Frasier supports Thorpe’s opponent, Phil Patterson, who is described by Martin as a “bleeding heart”.
What is the least favorite Frasier episode?
“Mother Load Part 2” has been identified as the least successful episode of the television series Frasier, according to a tally of 382 votes on the Internet Movie Database (IMDb). The episode features Niles allowing Daphne’s mother, whom he deems impossible to accommodate, to stay with him while Daphne attempts to prevent her brother Simon from engaging in problematic activities. The pantomimed English characters were more readily comprehensible in the 1990s.
Why was Frasier so rich?
Frasier Crane, a snobbish psychiatrist, gained wealth through investments, his earnings as a radio host, and his successful talk show career. He likely made over $100k per year as a radio host, which would be lower than his salary in private practice as a psychiatrist. Frasier’s accumulated wealth, negotiated salary, investments, and subsequent TV career allowed him to live a lavish lifestyle and afford his expensive tastes.
In the 1980s and ’90s, viewers grew to love Frasier Crane, who became a regular at a blue-collar Boston bar. His return to his hometown and opulent spending habits led viewers to believe he was rich. However, Frasier’s reboot dials up his wealth considerably, leaving one major question: how rich is Frasier and who has always been able to live so lavishly?
Frasier transitioned from a typical psychiatrist practice to a radio station and gave his professional opinions over the Seattle radio waves. He anticipated life as a bachelor when he purchased a top-floor three-bedroom condo, but his father and care-giver moved in. Frasier maintained his affluent lifestyle by frequently drinking top-shelf liquor, investing in worldly art, and owning high-end European furniture.
Did the cast of Frasier get along in real life?
The Frasier cast is known for their close relationship, with Grammer calling Pierce the brother he never had and playing their dad, Martin. Pierce is also godfather to Leeves’s son. Leeves praises Pierce for his generosity, compassion, intelligence, and elegance, and Joe Keenan, one of Frasier’s chief writers, praises his technical virtuosity for comedy and emotional honesty. Pierce’s character makes everyone around him better, making him a beloved character.
Why did Frasier lose his job?
Frasier Crane, an alumnus of Harvard College, Harvard Medical School, and Oxford University, first appeared in the 1984 episode “Rebound” as a psychiatrist to help bartender Sam Malone recover from alcoholism and his breakup from Diane Chambers. He later becomes involved with Lilith Sternin, a stereotypical “intelligent, ice queen” in the series.
In “The Triangle”, Frasier feigns depression to help Frasier recover from alcoholism and regain self-confidence, leading him to believe that Sam’s symptoms indicate his love for Diane. However, upon arrival, Frasier sees Sam and Diane arguing in the bar office, admitting the plan. Furious, Frasier declares himself sober, refuses to be part of their relationship, and vows to practice psychiatry again.
Frasier Crane becomes a permanent fixture among the other bar patrons and adds comedic comedic remarks to the show. He becomes romantically involved with Lilith Sternin, who initially insults him before leaving the bar. They live together for a year before getting married and giving birth to their son Frederick in “The Stork Brings a Crane”. In “Smotherly Love”, they reenact their wedding to please Lilith’s mother Betty.
In “One Hugs, the Other Doesn’t”, Frasier is revealed to have been previously married to Nanette Guzman, now known as Nanny G. Lilith attacks her during Frederick’s second birthday party when Nanette sings a song implying her possible feelings for Frasier, despite being aware of his remarry.
Why was Niles killed off on Frasier?
Niles is not in the Frasier reboot due to David’s decision not to return after almost two decades. Kelsey confirmed this in November 2022, stating that David’s decision allowed for new storylines to emerge. Yahoo, part of the Yahoo family, uses cookie policy to provide services, authenticate users, apply security measures, prevent spam and abuse, and measure user usage on its sites and apps.
Why did Frasier get canceled?
NBC decided to end the beloved sitcom Frasier after a series of episodes, which cost around $5. 2 million to produce, with $1. 6 million dedicated to Grammer’s salary. The Sideshow Bob voice actor had played Frasier for a long time, and it was expected that he would be paid a high salary. However, with ratings slipping, NBC struggled to justify the high costs per episode. Grammer expressed his willingness to a pay cut for another year, but it was understandable why Frasier ended after season 11. Jane Leeves, who played Martin’s live-in physical therapist Daphne Moon, once called the end of Frasier “absolutely hell”.
Grammer, who loved playing Frasier Crane, has been instrumental in developing the show’s return, but his recent comments are a bad sign for Frasier’s revival. He acknowledged the later seasons’ mistakes, revealing that the show took itself too seriously. The writers struggled to breathe new life into the show after Niles and Daphne finally got together in season 7’s finale, which lost much of its tension. The return of writers Christopher Lloyd and Joe Keenan led to a partial return to form with season 11.
Season 11 also encouraged Frasier to begin a new chapter in his life, with the finale, “Goodnight Seattle”, ending on a high note, giving him one more chance at love. Frasier was right to end after season 11, and the proposed revival risks ruining a hopeful end for the character.
Why is Niles not in the new Frasier?
David Hyde Pierce, who played the character of Niles Crane, the younger brother of Kelsey Grammer’s Dr. Frasier Crane, has announced his decision not to return to the Frasier reboot. The actor, who notably played the character, explained that his absence was not due to hard feelings but a busy schedule and a new story to tell. He revealed that he never really wanted to go back to the Frasier reboot, but rather wanted to do other things. Pierce spoke to the Los Angeles Times about his upcoming roles in the Julia Child series Julia and in Stephen Sondheim’s final work, Here We Are.
📹 Frasier Scene Edit Assignment
Hey, a bunch of new people have been finding this year old article. Maybe because of the reboot, idk. I do not care if you still love Frasier. I personally think “I hate my wife” jokes were boring and passé even by the time the earliest episodes of Frasier aired, but if those kind of jokes are your particular brand of jangling keys, go with God. In fact, I made a whole article about loving problematic media, check it out: youtu.be/gGYjoUZq3z4
“Growing the beard” is actually a reference to Commander Riker growing his beard for season two of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Season two is where Riker and the other cast members start settling comfortably into their roles and the writers start developing their characters independent of homages to the original 1960s Star Trek series.
I would like to suggest that you are not a terrible person for laughing at a few sexist jokes. It genuinely can be difficult to gauge levels of irony off of a few jokes, and comedy comes from the unexpected and subversion of expectation right? Sometimes when you can clearly see it, the idea that the joke itself is obnoxious or hugely outdated is the funny part, but setting and context is important. The more someone relies on it, the more apparent instead of a “wow society has come a long way from women being called chicks” has become (or always was) “oh God, you are nostalgic for days when women were subservient to men and you think it is funny if women are put in their place”.
Frasier is based in British comedy tradition in which the protagonist is rarely rooted for, and would be a villain in most other contexts. Edmund Blackadder is a perfect example of this. He is a conniving weasel but also always fails. Seeing himself a brilliant mastermind with being cowardly and incompetent in reality. The comedy comes from the juxtaposition of his inflated self-image and reality, just like Frasier.
From my south asian perspective I always thought of the show Frasier as a satire on the character Frasier and never a show about a person with class or values I was supposed to admire. The show always showed the Harvard alumni as an insecure idiot and the ever promiscuous Roz as a caring, understanding, kind person, a good friend. I always thought of the show as more of a reflection of the apparent disregard for academics and the value of higher education not hard to find iin the US, leading the writers to portray two psychologists in such ridiculous light rather than anything else. I thought that was humor the writers wanted to sell and it was all about, how absurd well educated well off men can act and how they can be wrong about almost everything they think or predict. So it’s kind of obvious nobody wants to be Fraiser, that’s what imo the writers intended for the viewer to think.
A couple of things from a Gen Xer who watched the show in it’s original run. 1. It was still better than other shows, which is terrible. 2. It was remarkable progressive to gay men 3. the 90s were remarkable self satisfied 4. I didn’t know that about Kelsey Grammer 5. thanks for the perspective. Hugs.
As a former private duty nurse, Frasier’s expectation of Daphne to also be the housemaid (aka “chief cook and bottle washer”) in addition to her ACTUAL (and literally her only REQUIRED JOB DESCRIPTION) of being a physical therapist to his dad, was sadly not much different than the expectations of many home health and private duty nurses today—from the families AND from the agencies that employ the healthcare workers. I recall being told that doing household chores like washing baby bottles (I worked with PED patients), folding and putting away laundry, and even tidying up the child’s room all fell within the “expected duties” of a home health/private duty nurse for their agency—-and I didn’t even live with the family. When you provide any kind of service for an individual and/or their family member in their own home, the lines of employee vs. familiar are all too often blurred, but only at the convenience of those being provided the service. Whether intentional or not, the sentiment of “we’re a big family here” or “you’re like family to us” often becomes an emotional manipulation to exploit the worker providing a service to a family. I’ve even had instructors (in nursing school) tell the class that “in the (nursing) profession, you will be expected to wear ‘many hats’ in addition to that of nurse”. Although at the time it was accompanied by an amusing anecdote of when she would occasionally help patients “wrangle chickens” back when she was a “lowly” home health LVN (her implication, not mine.
I feel obligated to bring this up every time it’s mentioned, Arendt’s depiction of Eichmann was completely incorrect she only watched the first few days of the trial and did not see later evidence or for that matter him breaking under cross-examination. Eichmann was not some pencil Pusher he was one of the chief architects of the Holocaust and did it out of a fervent hatred of Jewish people. Basically she fell for his defense.
So the more I look into Frasier, and the more I watch the show, the more I think this essay about Frasier is… not entirely done in good faith. For starters: No, Frasier is not ‘bad’ in a objective way. Its writing, humor, and exceptionally casted characters are written in a manner that is of very high quality. It’s punchlines, delivery, and setups are very much rooted in the bases of classism, elitism, farcity, and all done in a way that doesn’t talk down to the audience or make them feel stupid for not understanding something. If it was bad, this show WOULD have been forgotten or not remembered highly by its fans, especially since it shared a lot of DNA with its predecessor Cheers, both from how it set up Frasier as a character, and the various writers that came over from Cheers. This was not a failure like Wings or The Tortelli’s, two other spinoffs of Cheers. As well, the mentioning of how the show can be sexist, misogynistic and even homophobic is questionable. Now, lines that have aged poorly, like the Lupe Vélez story that Roz shares is something that the show deserves flak for, because the facts of her death may have been more readily available by that point that they could check its authenticity, or maybe they found it funny enough that it didn’t matter. Either way, that isn’t good. BUT, You cannot tell me ‘The Matchmaker,’ ‘The Impossible Dream,’ and even ‘The Doctor is Out,’ is primarily based around homophobic, gay panic jokes that are very low hanging fruit, and was written by lazy writers who did no research.
11:56 Good thing to note, I was born in the late 90’s. My history classes in public school in the early 2010’s stopped teaching global events in detail just after the Vietnam war. And the Vietnam war was the ONLY thing we learned about for the 1970s. Social history stopped at the civil rights movements of the 1960s. Disregarding that those events carried into the 70s TLDR: my history class taught that history stopped before my mother was born.
Ayyyyyyyyy Fukuyama. Love a mention of that utter goofball. A lot of bad takes lead back to him and in my comments I had like a dozen people attempting to rehabilitate him mostly by being like “he’s since moved away from being a thinly veiled chicago boy, you need to read (one of five of his other books) to get what he was really saying in End of History give it a chance come on bro bro just one more fukuyama book and I swear he won’t sound like a neocolonialism apologist”
I need to be an ultra Trek nerd here: growing the beard refers to Jonathan Frakes (who played Commander Will Riker) growing a beard in season 2 of Star Trek: The Next Generation. Season 1 was famously awful (unlike DS9 which had a very decent first season) and although Season 2 wasn’t great, it definitely was a turning point to better things for TNG. After Season 3 TNG really settled into its own and then SPAWNED the SPINOFF Star Trek DS9.
Maturity is having to know the difference between what social cues to go by and what social cues not to go by. If you laugh at a show and understand clearly what humor is without getting offended or policing everything brought to the table then you are an adult. Now if you’re mind is as impressionable as someone abandoned by their father who never came back with the milk, then the show is not for you as a way of protecting those who will suffer your clay molded elementary mouth you have. Maturity is also understanding that humor is subjective, Frasier is a classy sitcom that shows intelligent humor. The concept of the show is that they are psychiatrists who show exactly what we all think of a psychiatrist. They listen, they give sound advice, they spread self awareness but behind closed doors they are despicable human beings like us. This is just your way to show people how bad a show is, if anything check out Saved By The Bell, Full House, and other kinds of sitcoms that degrade women, That 70’s Show and more. We’re aware of Frasier and their flaws but I think the show is clearly aware of that including the actors who enjoyed the show as most of us did
Just finished perusal José’s article about Frasier. It was really well made, just as this was, and it made very clear something that’s dangerous about YouTube and YouTube essayists. Frankly, you guys are good. Very, very good and very convincing. And had I watched this article, without his, I’d have a very strong (very catered) opinion on Frasier. Had I watched José’s without this article, would have a similar (but opposite) very strong opinion (very catered). Point being: be careful what you watch. Just because it’s very convincing doesn’t mean there isn’t another very convincing counter-argument. Don’t fall into the warm, fluffy arms of confirmation bias. Give each opinion their due. More likely than not, you’ll not agree with either whole-heartedly anymore, but have a more nuanced, more accurate, more fulfilling, and frankly for satisfying opinion. I always try to keep my mind open, but I’ll try even harder to make sure I’m not bumping around in a bubble, as it were. Cross-Posted on José’s article.
Your words toward the end hit me hard. Especially after learning that now women who AREN’T EVEN PREGNANT sometimes can’t even get needed medications if they’re of child-bearing age because those drugs might harm a fetus. Even if alternative drugs are less effective and riskier to our health. We’re in a place now where men are willing to kill us to make sure we act like incubators. It makes me incredibly angry, but it inspires me to be an even more “annoying” feminist. And defend trans rights too.
While it is fair to discuss Kelsey Grammar’s sketchy past, I do think it’s unfair you don’t mention his early life as well. His childhood was absolutely horrifying. The following is from Wikipedia but he’s discussed this publicly several times. This includes a heartbreaking interview with Oprah where he discusses his sister and he completely breaks down. When Grammer was twelve years old, his grandfather died of cancer. In 1968, his father was murdered in St. Thomas by a mentally ill cab driver. In 1975, his 18 year old sister was kidnapped, raped, and murdered in Colorado Springs. The two men are still in prison for this crime. In 1980, his two teenage half-brothers died in a scuba diving accident. At this point he was 25. How do you think that shapes a person? Safe to say he has been plagued by alcohol and substance abuse problems. There are several episodes where he is not there because he was in rehab due to multiple relapses. The cast had to do an intervention on him. The cast have all said he was difficult to work with but they understood why he was the way was. This is not a defence of his alleged crimes, I feel you’ve painted half a picture of a man who’s faced extraordinary tragedy that puts most of our own issues to shame.
Frasier wildly vacillates from ‘witty-funny’ to ‘cringe’. There are some episodes I can still laugh at, but the fact that the characters almost never grow gets very old. Kelsey Grammer, OTOH, is a conservative jerk who most likely got away with statutory sexual assault. In the way that I can’t watch Cosby or Louis CK, I have issues with KG now. If i ever catch an episode of Frasier, it’s one of a few where someone actually learns something. I like the episodes where Lilith and Frasier make peace, for example. But there’s no arguing that Grammer is a good dude or that the show isn’t mean-spirited part of the time. I think the most ironic line in Frasier is “I’m listening.” He very rarely did.
What this article fails to do is convince me that these apparent missteps and dated “take my wife please” jokes were enough to undo all that made the show great. It’s so easy to be smug and dismissive about a show that was so much more than the sum of its parts. What of the wonderful performances or nuanced character dynamics? No acknowledgment of its influence on television or culture overall? I don’t see why we must damn the whole thing just because it reflects the times it was made in, or why we’re cringing at a silly little theme song because it has a retrograde perspective on mental health. I don’t know what you’re trying to prove other than the 90s were thirty years ago.
I think the writing in Frasier overall is fine. Its like Tom and Jerry, the characters are mean in flawed to one another and thats the source of the humor. We humans understand that fiction is fiction, which is why we enjoy it when there is a murder to kick off a sherlock Holmes storyline (While NOT wanting murders irl). And in the same way, its fun when Niles stalks Daphne or Martin makes fun of Frasier for being a wus. We know when perusal a story, that there is no real danger for anyone. But in real life there is real danger when being stalked, so thats why we dont like it. I`m Daniel, and I LOVE murder in fiction. “Murder in fiction…. the sane choice!”
I love how one can see things so differently, I always saw the dog as the straight man so to speak. Because when he would stare at frasier, I felt like he was staring into his soul and judging him lol maybe that’s just me and my custom wired brain… But I always felt the dog knew what was up. For the record, I’m 52 which puts me directly in the middle of generation X, and though I got a late diagnosis in life, I’m also neurodivergent, so I never really quite fit into any of the cultural constructs… Granted, as a young cis male I was definitely Marinated in the indoctrination of “horseshit masculinity”… I just feel like the word “toxic” just doesn’t do it justice.. so might take on television shows is probably a typical and com I’m not educated in media studies I was just raised by a TV set. Fortunately, I was raised in what passed for a liberal/feminist household… so both parents worked, and I was raised by a television set. But at least I didn’t have to deal with some right wing Christian indoctrination I mean not at home… Lol.
This is my hipster comment of the month. I was subscribed to both you and Jose before these vids came out. I watched his first because a.) I never got into any sitcoms and b.) I knew he would give it a charitable read with the good takeaways, educating me on what I missed out on, and c.) I knew you were going to wreck Frazier’s shit. I’m mortified to learn about Lupe and the Kelsey Grammer assault allegations. Keep doing what you’re doing, Hoot. This shit makes the world a better place.
Was not expecting this when coming from Jose’s vid. With regards to stagnating attitudes towards mental illness, they didn’t improve in the next couple of decades: high school friendships dissipated when my brother became ill in the early 2000s; hostile college housemates in the 2010s (behind my back of course, one tried to get me evicted whilst another warned his sister of the crazy).
I love how my immediate thought of “The Banality of Frasier” made me think of the “Banality of the Big Bang Theory” then hoots says it like two seconds later. My emotionally abusive and narcissistic boomer mother loved this show and unsurprisingly loves Big Bang Theory. My intellectual but largely absent and passive dad is kind of silent about both. It’s a weird dynamic
There’s an irony in this vid. They make a comment about how acknowledging a joke is bigoted or ‘punching down’ within the show doesn’t justify the joke. And at the same time, they make a joke about themselves as humorless killjoys for overanalyzing this show. Joking about being humorless doesn’t make you not humorless. I watch a lot of breadtube… it matches my social and political beliefs well. But there is a grain of truth to a progressive streak of just shitting on everything, with no room to laugh. This vid is in that vein. Obviously the vid makers are welcome to not like Frasier and to express that feeling. And this comment, while technically negative, actually increases their odds of getting on the algorithm. So. You’re welcome. haha
This made me think more critically about one of my favorite background shows to watch. It’s true that no one wants to be Frasier, and I think overall that’s kind of the point of the overarching narrative of the show from season to season. He’s perpetually alone because he’s a bad person underneath the surface of gentility, and the 90’s were absolutely rife with all sorts of terrible issues in a ton of shows. That being said I still get a giggle from a lot of the humor on the show, and if you compare it to the show it spun off of they did make progress of a sort (Cheers is so violently anti-woman I can’t even watch it tbh). Thanks for the excellent vid, now a subscriber.
It’s absolutely wild to me that a country that bays so loudly about freedom and democracy has its laws decided for it by nine people appointed for life by one of the two main political parties. When Ireland amended its constitution to make same-sex marriage legal and later to lift the ban on abortion, it was done via referendum. The people spoke and made their wishes clear.
It’s not the slightest hyperbole when I say I’ve been waiting almost 30 years for this. I was 22 when this show premiered and, as much as I loved Cheers, I was ALWAYS skeeved out by Frasier. It was that smug self-congratulatory Boomer Comedy vibe you guys touched upon (fuck Forrest Gump for that too, but that’s a knish for another deli). Everything about and around FRASIER was SO pleased with itself — the stars, writers, producers, Hollywood, the entire TV industry. This thing CLEANED UP at the Emmys/Globes time and time again. The vanguard of television comedy in the 90s. The winky “even allegedly educated, sensitive, successful, nurturing men just wanna be boys too” vibe, so who cares who they demean, belittle, exploit, etc. Article after article about how Frasier and Niles were revolutionary because prime-time television was presenting two “bickering but dimensional gay men” in the guise of brothers. But then of course they had to pull out the 90s Television Cliche of Cliches — the “STRAIGHT GUYS GET MISIDENTIFIED AS GAY AND HOMOPHOBIC HIJINKS ENSUE” that Seinfeld did earlier, but at least with more of a sense of internal recrimination than external snark. Fuck this show.
@little hoot: an erratum if you please: the phrase “growing the beard” was actually initially in reference to Will Riker on Star Trek: The Next Generation. In the first season of TNG, Will is clean shaven. The film quality isn’t as good, the supporting characters are sometimes a bit flat in their acting, and several of the episodes are just bad (though the introduction of Q is fire because John de Lancie is a god among men). But in the second season, Will gets a chinstrap beard and the series really comes into its own. So while I agree that Sisko with the beard is objectively a better Sisko, I would contend that early DS9 wasn’t bad by comparison to later seasons AND that the Ur “growing of the beard” was from The Next Generation just as the Ur jumping of the shark was form Happy Days. But that said, this article was fantastic. It was an excellent takedown of 90’s misogyny (that is still so so so prevalent). The tie-in to Roe being overturned and the deeply problematic appointment and continued disgraceful appointment of Clarence Thomas (to say nothing of Amy “Coney Island” Barrett and Brett “I like beer” Kavanaugh) was excellent and an angle I had not previously considered. Thank you, as always, for the excellent quality of the content you create. This was punchy and fun.
This seems to be another example of someone confusing a protagonist with a hero. Nearly everyone on Frasier is incredibly flawed and it isn’t a coincidence that Frasier is chronically alone throughout the series. Lilith and Meredith are both the butts of jokes, but so is every other character on the show. I know grousing leads to views, but there are much better targets for your ire out there.
I think there’s a lot of great points here, but I do kind of disagree with the idea that the show “hates women” (quoted for clarity, not to be dismissive). As with any 200+ episode sitcom, the attitudes and presentation are going to vary from episode to episode, from writer to writer from storyline to storyline. Sometimes Niles is an awful lech who’s practically stalking Daphne, sometimes he’s a well-intentioned romantic who acts as a voice of reason for Frasier. Because of the episode nature of the series, both Niles exist, despite being totally contradictory. So I think there is a bit of selective amnesia which can be done, which I don’t think is even necessarily wrong. Like “man that time Niles filmed Daphne while she was asleep sure was shitty and unfunny, but this week he’s offering her his coat while they’re out on the balcony and really that was such a tiny moment 6 seasons ago.” And largely, as much as I don’t personally care for it, the Niles & Daphne romance does kind of earn it’s pay off after a 2 season-ish arc. Where Niles and Daphne kind of end up finding each other in a way. It’s such a strange aspect of episodic television. That moments and episodes do just exist within their own context a lot of the time. Then there’s the fact that all the jokes about Lilith when she’s not a guest star, are all just kind of trashing on her and making her sound horrible (which I suppose in the first season is at least somewhat understandable as they’re recently divorced). But when she IS on camera (largely because her episodes are written by Ken Levine and David Isaacs who LOVE Lilith) she’s sympathetic, and smart, and sometimes sensual.
So many thoughts, I’ve been sitting here and trying to put them to words without much success. It’s so alienating and humiliating, being treated like a second class citizen, all while being told to lighten up, it’s just a joke. At the same time, it has gotten better. It really has. Maybe that’s why it hurts even more now. I used to take these attitudes for granted, but they hit harder when I don’t expect them.
Wow, I discovered u through Caelan and now I’m going through your back catalog. This reached my heart. I actually purposely didn’t watch Jose’s Frasier vid bc I don’t care about that show but now I will. I’m so glad to see Neil here too. Also, as a woman, I think we know we have had to endure misogynistic jokes since we have memory, it isn’t just you. Anyway, I’m happy to have found u and Caelan and Neil and Jose and all my leftist YouTube. Will make sure to subscribe to the podcast perhaps the patreon if 2023 brings me a new job. Happy new year!!! ❤
The real “class act” of TV sitcoms was The Dick Van Dyke show. Yes, it was set in the suburban world of the early 1960s, but it constantly referred back to the working-class life of New York, Van Dyke’s (genuine) background in small town Illinois, and the generation-shaping experience of World War 2. At this time, no adults had been raised in the suburbs — they had worked their way up to them, and felt themselves lucky. The show openly advocated what was the progressive social thought of the day, without fear of offending the yokels. Everyone involved with the show agreed that they should NOT continue the show beyond the point where it remained fresh. They would end it while it was still good. And that’s exactly what they did. Everyone involved then went on to other projects. This is actually both good taste and good business sense.
This is outstanding. I’ve long had an issue with Kelsey Grammar. For one, I resented his depiction of women in the show “Girlfriends”. I was also lukewarm about “Fraiser”, but never really knew why. This article helped me piece together the “why”. The show was insidious. This confirms to me that Grammar has consistently been a piece of isht. I wasn’t even aware of ’93 incident. Now everything adds up.
Back again, after quoting No One Wants To Be Fraiser to hubby last night in reference to the Pervert characters in Anime- no one wants to be Miroku in Inuyasha, no one wants to be the little grape dweeb in My Hero Academia, NO ONE WANTS to be these people… Right? But people keep writing them. Someone wants them THERE, if not to BE them, then to laugh at them. Or be given permission to do terrible things to women because No One Else Likes Him, Either- but it still gives the show an excuse to show sexual assault in a casual and comedic way for something that SHOULD NOT be handled that way. No one wants to be Frasier, but he keeps showing up. Rarely as a protagonist, but so frequently as a Well Meaning Idiot On The Sidelines that allows artists to get away with a boob grab in a T14 show So yeah, your TV Trope is codified, I’m using it in language and it works
The earlier seasons were significantly better, I have to say—Frasier was less melodramatic, the story beats were less horrendous cringe and he wasn’t doing much romantically. He was one of many characters, most of whom were already more interesting than he was. The later seasons are just a desperate attempt to escalate and up the stakes more and more and it wasn’t as engaging. Also, this whole thing was written by white gay men: often the worst offenders when it comes to casual sexism and othering of straight women. But! I rewatch for Niles. That’s it. And only really the first 4 seasons. And as a Trekkie I have to make the prerequisite “actually the beard was Riker’s” comment.
This is such a great companion piece to Jose’s article. His mostly focusing on the creators’ intent, positive aspects and accolades while this is such a rug pull from that general level of comfort I had toward the show. Your article feels like the necessary final part of Jose’s. His being “What was Frasier and why do people like it?” and yours “what’s the greater cultural context of Frasier and why don’t people like it?”
Oooft this was confronting… I am surprised that with your feelings on the matter, why you would colab with Jose who has such an opposite take to you? I don’t write this to be rude, I am genuinely curious because surely with his much larger reach he is committing the very thing your railing against here? Or were you both super shocked when you saw each others articles? It’s hard for me to dislike Frasier because I watched it every school day with my mum before school, so it is extremely nostalgia laden for me and I do fall way more in the Jose camp. Maybe after this article has digested a little more the shine will have worn off though. Still, a great (if uncomfortable) article!
This is honestly one of the most innacurate articles I’ve ever seen. You two are upset that the show uses date jokes, yet it’s a dated show. You mad about character flaws like his relationships with women, yet don’t acknowledge how he cares for them enough to be honest with them when he doesn’t see a future. You can’t take every joke literally as it is a joke, he’s not real so perhaps don’t take it so seriously? It’s not upholding “hegemonic bigotry” (which isn’t even a phrase) you’re just mad that it’s a sitcom of its time.
I remember being confused by Fraiser when I was younger because in my country in ~2004-2007 ish they’d show a lot of Cheers reruns during non-prime time hours so I was familiar with the character but I didn’t know he had his own show and didn’t understand why so many other tv shows were always referencing HIM so much when he’s just one of the dudes on Cheers.
24:16 What makes this even more fucked in hindsight is that there was at least one primetime sitcom that did empathize with Anita & mocked everyone actually at fault; and it was fucking Dinosaurs . Like you KNOW you’re on the wrong side of history when a silly dinosaur puppet show on ABC has more intelligent and compassionate takes than you.
21:53 “All the while, the men of KACL continue making disgusting degrading comments about their coworkers, and we’re meant to laugh.” We’re meant to laugh at how pathetic and unsociable those two male characters are, because of the way they behave. I think this (deliberately?) bad faith reading of that episode encapsulates the attitude of this entire article. I mean seriously, Frasier is to mental illness what Jerry Springer is to poverty? That is such a wildly unfair characterization lol.
Similar to the how you think the “Banality of Frasier” is too broad and could be replaced with any sitcom, it seems like you could pick a part any show that started over 30 years ago and find plenty of things that would not be ok in today’s environment. I think you could have gotten the same point across without taking scenes out of context, like Julia Wilcox (Felicity Huffman) choking and no one do anything (for a few seconds). Or saying how he “followed a woman on to the plane to sleep with her”. That’s certainly taken out of context within the episode and overall basic plot. It’s been a while since I’ve seen the episode, but I’m fairly certain that the woman is immediately creeped out when Frasier tells her that he spontaneously decided to go to Mexico after seeing that she was going to Mexico (or wherever it was), and she actually moves her seat on the plane. It’s a 22 minute sitcom that is called “Frasier”. Just by the title alone I’d say that it’s primarily from Frasier’s point of view. Obviously you see things he doesn’t, but it’s essentially his point of view and context. I don’t know if I could think of a show that is able to flesh out and make well rounded characters that wouldn’t be considered problematic, in just 22 minutes a week on a major network.
I was a uni student, who was living with a very nasty fellow phd who had singularly the worst take on GoT I’d ever scene and is the only person I know who thinks the ending was good, because it confirmed their assessment of a bioessential kind of “male mothers, female warriors” instability. I hated it with a passion. They used to play the rape scenes on repeat while I was eating breakfast. They loved all things 90s. Buffy, SitC, Fraser, the L word, it all felt grimy to me. A kind of very cynical, light-hearted at anyone insufficient’s expense. This way really nails down the reasons for that discomfort I had, as someone who didn’t watch much TV in the 1990s to 2010s.
As someone who watched Frasier sometimes (I was in college in the ’90s, TV was all we had 😭) the only things I ever enjoyed were Eddie (dogs are good) and the slapstick episodes. Falling down a lot in one season of SNL gave Chevy Chase a lifetime of back pain (and probably made him into even more of an asshole) so I guess I can understand producers not wanting to do that to their stars (personal feelings about Kelsey Grammer set aside)… but that was the one thing they were consistently good at, the four door farce. There was an episode where the cast went skiing that, once they arrived at the lodge, turned into what Frasier almost never was: something special. Probably the only time in a decade of the show that I laughed out loud, and I did so more than once! They were solid comic actors, but there were only like 4 “jokes” in the scripts. Over and over again. For like 11 years or something. It was better when they fell over a lot.
Hey hoots, I know you mean well and also that this article came out 7 months ago, but I figured I’d mention: the sudden, aggressive, and repeated mentions of the explicit r*pe of a minor towards the end of the article (with no forewarning as far as I could tell) had very negative effects on me. I realize that exposure to this sort of thing is in some ways good for me, or something I should expect, but I must note that simple things like bleeping out very triggering words can go a long way in preventing panic attacks and episodes in people that are in various stages of recovery from s*xual trauma. I like the article and your content and am glad you are making sure these crimes are not silenced, but sometimes springing it on an audience can harm the very victims you are trying to help.
I severely lack the pink glasses of 90’s nostalgia, not having been born or ever lived in USA, but I do remember Frasier with love, I do have the nostalgia of perusal this show about two uptight and old school psychiatrists being horrible people and never getting what they wanted, and most of the times getting what they deserved. So I severely lack the outlook for this analysis, even though though the years I have learned about these USA story and context things one way or another. But yeah, I remember never rooting for the characters and always undestood they were horrible people. I liked the show, until season 5 when I felt it totally lost it’s way, I just couldn’t get on board with the storylines of Frasier losing his job but not having any monetary issues, Ross pregnancy or Niles finally marrying Daphne, which at that point it should have been the end of the show, because there was nowhere to go. I appreciate the article and while I understand the points I can’t connect with some of them. Like, I get it, but not entirely. Maybe in time.
I will say that as much as I loved this article, the comparison to the Holocaust was, to put it mildly, jumping the shark. I have decided to compartmentalize that jump as a fear we may be riding in the same genocidal direction – which we are. It’s alarming. BUT hyperbole hurts rather than helps us look like Paul Reveres rather than unreasonable alarmists. Especially when the groups which you are worried for are not just in sight of the future “banality” wave, but other than blonde haired blue eyed women, were amongst the very targets of the Holocaust’s “banality of evil” itself. Fun fact: the first major book burning was at Germany’s Institute of Sexology, where transgenderism and related topics had been studied more extensively than anywhere else in the western world (and where at least half a century of gender/ sexual research had dissolved into sulfer, before its constituents whom had failed to escape earlier found themselves either dead or working to death in slave labor camps within a few short years). We should do everything in our power to avoid the same happening – and overextending our points of what’s happened so far (eg here, a rather sexist TV show in hindsight) does not help our cause to see it does not happen again. That said, thank you for the insightful topic and I’ve subscribed.
I would watch a article about Newsroom just because people forgot about Phil Hartman if you guys make it. And because assholes by the names of Joe Rogan and Andy Dick started their careers there. I want to watch that show because of Phil, I missed it like Fraiser, but I can’t with Rogan and Dick being in it. This article was fantastic, thank you both for great content.
I was a teenager in the 90’s, and I’ve found myself recently reckoning with the exact rose-tinted nostalgia of the 90’s, that we criticised Boomers / Silent Generation types from engaging in, toward their time. As a young Gen-X’er, I always said we’re getting away with little to no scrutiny. Where’s our “OK Boomer” equivalent? It feels odd that we’ve managed to evade getting one. With Friends as another major 90’s touchstone, it does seem we were swimming along in a state of an aspirational narcotic haze, whilst other parts of the world were being utterly destroyed. It seemed like nothing could ever go wrong in the long, Centrist 90’s. And, it’s only now after zooming back really far, that we see that cosy, beige, Centrist decade for what it really was: an outsourcing of pain to everywhere else except here.
I recently decided to watch Frasier because I remember it existing and looking interesting as a kid but was over my age range. I didn’t get very far before “this is just wordy trash” and finding something else to watch. Edit: it may be trite but Neil and Hoots’ talk at the end about being tired, Lupé and a responsibility to the truth brought to mind a passage from Tolkien “I wish it need not have happened in my time,” said Frodo. “So do I,” said Gandalf, “and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Frasier is a complicated show for me, in the sense that it once helped. but I now dislike it. Frasier resonated with me as I was an older teen, having general parental conflicts and starting to move left in my views, which was also in conflict with my parents. I also appreciated how it dealt with affairs. Again, familial reasons. I always knew Freud and Jung was junk, I think the show’s creators picked it because Freud and Jung are in the public sphere. However, a light-hearted sitcom can’t go too deep into actual therapy, it’s not funny at all, so in that sense, having the lead be a psychiatrist hindered the writing and social impact. They could only do surface- level, pop-pschycology jokes that a general audience will get and these are sadly often serious misrepresentations of mental illness. Like all 90s sitcoms it has massive baggage. But as I got older and dealt with being an adult woman in society, it resonated less and became more obnoxious. I really can’t watch it now, especially knowing what I do about the main actor. Ugh. Apparently, Grammar is a fan of Putin, on top of everything else. Sigh.
We like frasier because it tells a story of continuous moral failing despite having material means and education to do better. it’s getting a free pass for your own inability to do right because of you doubts what you should do, about who you should and could be, how to be nice and kind and not downtrodden or unhappy. the show doesnt care about the perspective of the harassed
Didn’t realize the lies about Lupe’s death or the coverup of Grammar’s SA. Appreciate the history lesson to center the hostility towards women in the 90s in politics and comedy. Considering what happened during the Kavanagh confirmation with the trashing of Christine Blasey Ford, the country has clearly made no progression.
From the window of a rented limousine I caught your pretty blue eyes. One day soon you’re gonna’ reach sixteen Painted lady in the city of lies. Ooh, do you, know my name? Do I, look the same? You know I’m the one you want, baby I must be the one you need, yeah! Clutchin’ pages from your teenage dream In the lobby of the Hotel Paradise. Through the circus of the L.A. queens How fast you learn the downhill slide. Oh, how you, play the game. Still don’t, know your name. You know I’m the one you want, baby Whooh, yes, I got to be the one you need, need, need, need yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah. Oh, you got to tell me. Just a minute, just a minute. Lips like cherries, and the brow of a queen Come on, flash across your eyes. Said you dug me since you were thirteen Then you giggle as you heav an’ sigh. Ooh, do ‘ya, know my name Do I, look the same? Baby, I got to tell you, I’m the one you want And everybody knows I’m the one you need, yeah-yeah. Oh, get it, get it Come on now Come on now Come on now Hours, hours, with the moments in between Oh, baby, how the time flies? I couldn’t count the times The thought of comin’, and the pain in leavin’. Oh, baby, dry those silver eyes Oh, do you, know my name? Do I, look the same? You know I’m the one you want Whoo-ooh, ye-yes, I’m the one you need, yeah-yeah! Ooh, that’s right! Ooh, yeah, that’s right! Ooh, that’s right! That’s right. That’s right. Oooh, yeah, that’s right. That’s right. Aoaoh, aoaoh, aoaoh, aoaoh, aoaoh…
I watched Frasier and disliked the titular character immensely but kept perusal because I loved the other more interesting main characters. Loved Sideshow Bob on the Simpsons but went further off Kelsey Grammar after that famously Christian man went to the Playboy Mansion like it was a normal and good thing to do. This has done the seemingly impossible and lowered my opinion of him even further. 😖
I have been rewatching Frasier and was surprised at how poorly it has aged, specially in regards to the treatment of women and female sexuality. However I am not sure the argument is well presented here, I feel something is missing. For example we are not judging breaking bad for the amount of people who die due to the ego of Walter White. I think the problem is that we are supossed to laugh at Frasier and that makes it wrong. I think Frasier is supposed to be a villian too in more than one way. I do not have a clear answer to all of this yet, so don’t @me Another curious thing I noticed in your article is that there is no mention of the show creators/writers being gay, which I think is another factor that makes the treatment of women super weird.
Wowee zowee! Someone’s been listening to “Smarter Than U” by The Undertones, took it seriously, and thought it applied to themselves! Let me tell you goofballs something: Frasier was actually one of the smartest American sitcoms of its time. Also, mentioning Frankie Fukuyama in this ccontext reaks of the kind of pretention that would make Frasier himself oh so proud. I thought we were bettter than this, people! I am most disappointed. #Unsubscribed I for one will never hoot with you again!
I needed this. For a while now it’s felt like I was the only one getting tired in my late twenties while muffling my feminist rage. Women are treated like we’re little more than a formality for reproduction, almost extraneous as all we do is wait for a real person to make the baby and then we push it out 9 months later. When we talk about how disgusting this attitude is, we’re mocked for being feminists like “feminism” necessarily equates to “Karen”. Even other women who recognize this unbalanced view society has toward women hesitate to call themselves feminists. “I’m not a feminist, I’m cool so I don’t ask people to respect me as a human.” I don’t want to put words in your mouth but this article, the stories about these brave women, terrible sitcoms, etc… brought up some emotions.
I must confess Frasier was one of my favourite shows growing up, I loved the quick, witty back and forth between the characters and found it very watchable. But I went into this with an open mind and I gotta say, you changed my opinion on Frasier. It is deeply problematic and I had no idea about what Kelsey Grammer was accused of and the case surrounding the accusations until today. I’m sad that I can’t remember Frasier the way I used to anymore, But i’ve found a new small Youtube website that makes interesting content so… I guess, every cloud has a silver lining.
I got about 15-minutes in and had to stop. Was Frasier a misogynistic show? By today’s standards – yes. Not by the 90s. If you believe that people stopped thinking about history as a contemporary evolution in the 90s – that’s on your education system. Maris was intentionally kept off the show as an homage to Vera in cheers. If you were to critique her absence of screen presence you need to dig into her inspirations. The “P-P-Palestine” remarks show you have no understanding of Israeli/Palestinian conflict and relations in the 90s, and my guess is that the understanding of geopolitics from the writers of this article are learned and viewed in a gen z/late millennial ultra-left wing headspace that tends to lean on that left side of the radical horseshoe theory. I think there is a LOT to critique Frasier for. And I have no issue critiquing its representation in a modern lens – but this wasn’t it. You applied a study from the mid 2010s looking back at the views of people 20+ years earlier. But your conclusion was that Frasier had poor representation of mental illness. But for the time it actually had really great, and empathetic moments. Same for LGBTQ+ representation, and also for women. Could it and should it have been better? Yes. There’s just something about how this article presents itself that sits with me the wrong way. Very self-righteous critiques of the past without reverence for the hindsight you have, and the past doesn’t. Frasier wasn’t a Norman Lear show – but it did well, socially, for what it was.
So basically you’re hightlighting all the characters, of every gender, FLAWS and how they give birh to all the absurd, hilarious comedy that such flaws can produce. Welcome to the world of comedy. Would love to see what you guys find so hilarious. I would imagine you spend mos of your time wondering what’s not funny, than actually enjoying yourself.
Really interesting article, it wasn’t all easy to hear as I grew up really liking the show but it’s important to be aware of the problems that the show has and that even though it’s aged better than most other sitcoms from a similar time and the 2000s/2010s, it doesn’t mean that it’s all great or without any flaws or dated aspects.
Thank you for the truth-telling and connecting the dots. Did not know about Lupe before – wow!! And all the call-outs. I did not know about Grammar – that’s truly abhorrent and gives sick a different feel to all the episodes where he does creepy things. I always took those to be like, exploring this terrible character who shouldn’t be giving advice or should take the advice he gives. But knowing the actor’s history just makes it not even funny. They wrote that for him knowing what he did. Truly sickening. And I’m always mad about the way Anita Hill was treated. “Love” that multiple sex pests serve on the high court in unelected lifetime appointments and have so much power.. They broke just laws and violated people’s humanity – I think we should break their unjust laws and uphold people’s humanity!
Lots of these are great points. He’d be a super-creepy character today. Even back then, some of that stuff was called out as creepy but then explained away as misguided passion. And then lots of what passed as romance or office banter in the ’90s is no longer acceptable today. The sexist and homophobic jokes are so lazy and so overdone in ’90s sitcoms and even later ones. What I thought it did brilliantly and what keeps me rewatching was: 1) the sibling rivalry between him and Niles – the best episodes focus on the two of them, 2) the fantastic physical comedy – the “revolving doors” episodes are classics, not innovative in any way but so beautifully acted 3) the class and wealth jokes that are some of the funniest I’ve seen (The Door Jam episode at the fancy spa, when Niles says “Be my eyes, Frasier!” makes me spit out my drink every time). It also does out-of-set episodes very well compared to other sitcoms. And I sure love a nice Italian suit on a man! Everything else aged pretty poorly. Couch was ugly, Eddie was annoying.
Terrific work by you both – it’s the first article I’ve watched. I came in expecting something very particular but was pleasantly surprised and impressed by the scope of this. I used to watch Frasier as a kid and would have called it a “smarter” sitcom but thinking about the misogyny embedded in every punchline, it’s so so boring and bad. Can’t (but can) believe how Grammer has made a career despite what he did to that girl, just disgusting.
This is pretty condescending. Frasier certainly was a 90s sitcom and falls victim to a lot of the problematic tropes that such a distinction entails. But it was also brilliantly and hilariously written, as well as stunningly acted. There are such riper targets for this kind of critique. Do better, please.
I was in my 20s during the 1990s so I was immersed in all the (un)subtle misogyny, sexism, and whiteness. We thought we were so much more sophisticated and aware and just than the elders. We thought we knew bad when we saw it. We thought that stuff would end with us. I’ve realized that having these terrible takes pointed out for what they are does bring awareness but we aren’t “woke” until we see it for what it is IN the moment.
The depiction of Latino and European characters (French, German and Greek) always made me uncomfortable. Complete one dimensional stereotypes. The episode with Mary taking Roz’s role played into the stereotypes- with Mary and the other African American woman – of African American women as loud mouthed
Whoever made this article needs to get a life and clearly takes things way too seriously. Frasier was an awesome and relatable sitcom for a lot of people, including me. Yes some of the episodes were dumb but that’s true of all tv shows. He was anything but sexist. If you don’t like a TV show then don’t watch it
Both Cheers and Frasier aired in my country, but i only enjoyed Cheers a little and never understood the appeal of Frasier. the jokes were super bland and boring to me, and the guy playing the titular character is also bland and boring to me. That this is hailed as the ‘greatest sitcom’ is baffling to me.
So. I’ve only seen a handful of episodes of Frasier and…. I’m not going to lie it was so boring. I literally don’t even remember all of this because I hardly remember it at all. I know it’s wildly popular but I never understood why? I feel the same way about Seinfeld. Like they just weren’t entertaining to me. I hated Fraiser but I did kind of like his brother and that’s ALL I REMEMBER ABOUT THE WHOLE SHOW. 😭 How bad does your writing have to be that I cannot recall a SINGLE episode??
Thank you so much for this… I can’t tell you how many times I made people literally gasp at me when I told them I didn’t like Frasier when it was on air… The comeback was always that I wasn’t sophisticated enough to understand the humor, and there was no example of study or media that I enjoyed I could give to dissuade them. Thank you so much for giving me the words to explain what I hated about this show without having to watch the damn thing. I will now watch everything you do.
Thank you for being so honest about your feelings in this one… I get so frustrated by the sexism and other gross shit in TV shows sometimes (especially older sitcoms), it’s maddening and utterly demoralizing when everyone else is just asking like this is all normal. I wish there more people like you talking about it so I wouldn’t feel like I’m going crazy when I try to bring it up with others. :/
Some things: 1. I didn’t hear about the Johnny Depp Vs Amber Heard thing till I was told I heard it and it made me hate him. I just didn’t like him because of the Carribbean ships movie, I hate those movies and he is a big part of it. I believe her, the ornus put on her to be perfect to escape abuse being perpetrated against her through public shaming and the judicial system was insane. 🤷 But the Anita Hill… I believe her, my heart goes out to her and her baby. 2. It’s despicable how much America resembles the War Wars era Germany more and more. I fear for my world, I know we’ll be the “some will die” as we’ve been since neo-liberals took over with the fall of the Berlin wall. 3. What the hell! A thirteen year old? And this is the “safe for men” world these people want to bring back? 4. My country, we’re very anti-LGBTQ, gay people are a joke, trans people a horror, and no one’s heard of anything else. But there used to be this air of sympathy for them that “American cultural spread” is undoing. I fear for the global LGBTQ community, especially after coming across that news from Britain of people bullying a child murder victim because she was trans. There is no safety for them, no matter how much that neo-racist show Eurovision wants to lie there is.
This was a very, very good article. Thank you for making it. I’ve been stuck in this “I really need to start being more politically active in my community, but…” ever since Neil made a really great article a few months ago. Maybe I’ll try to find the specific one, for posterity later. ( Update : I found it). Point being, it’s so easy to hope the active activists are activisming and think, “I’ll start protesting and activisming soon, just not now because…”. I hate it. But, I only lived where I currently am (California) for the last year and am moving back to NY (hopefully more permanently than a year). And the previous 8 years I was in Toronto, so… I did have reasons, I just don’t know if they’re legitimate excuses. Let’s be honest. All I want is forgiveness from someone. Please forgive me, Great Left YouTube Essayist Gods. I’ll start as soon as I get to NY! Capitalism Is Killing Us – youtube.com/watch?v=iKobG8bzZV0&lc=Ugy5A0e6Tw5xRyuNnsB4AaABAg&ab_channel=TheLiberalCook — It was 10 months ago. Oh how time flies. For grins, I (think? I) linked to my original comment:
I loved the kind of article essay that leaves me with things to think about for days, like this one. I grew up in the 90s, but during what i presume was the heyday of Frazier my older (and adored) brother was on a proto-hipster “I dont watch TV” phase, so i really dont remembera lot of 90s TV, at least not in the way I might if I’dbeen perusal steadily every night for years. My point is just that I was interested to hear what you guys made of a show I remembered enough about that was on while i was growing up, but that I’m not a fan of, is the point. (It’s not like you’re doing a retrospective of the X-files. You know what the world actually probably really needs? The X-Files deserve this retrospective cultural treatment. Theres so much there. In one episode in the first half of season 1, our heroes are interviewing a military wife about how her husband went insane testing an experimental plane or something, and Scully gives a half smile and says to this woman, who is afraid to talk to the FBI, I sh!t you not, “the government is not above the law,” as a way to gain her confidence. Obviously Scully is naive, but so were 90s TV viewers, even if they saw she was ‘wrong’ in this assertion! In addition to the dazzling naiveté of the whole decade, pre 9/11 conspiracy was wild. And while I don’t blame Neil for not remembering that the Oklahoma City Bombing, the first attempt on the World Trade Center, the Waco TX seige, and the capture of the Unibomber also happened in the 90s in America, that realization, coupled w the brilliant monolog about the state of the world in the 1990s was a pretty sound indictment of American /Anglophone complacency in and about that decade.
I often find people’s love of 90’s sitcoms naive and annoying. Rose tinted remembrance of your youth. An the shows you watched is one thing. But keeping these tired old shows around as treasured keepsakes just brings their lack of luster into sight of modern eyes. Thank you for keeping me real! I enjoyed Jose’s trip down memory lane. Thanks for reminding me why these things are best kept a memory! Also Kelsey did WHAT!!? What a sh*t bag screw that old git.
This article is SO under-rated. Plus Hoots commentary is so heart breaking and funny, I’d love to watch/hear a collab with Jose (they have also covered Frazer in a article). I had a great time listening, even though it wasn’t easy. Oh, and not relevant, but Neil looks so cute with long purple wavy hair, I’m here enjoying the looks.
I love all the angry unhinged comments telling them to calm down about a tv show they have the right to dislike…it’s fucking hilarious. Guys, why’d you watch this article if you knew you’d hate it? What a waste of your time and energy! You’re clearly mad af about it too so don’t even try to use the word oversensitive or overreact. It’s literally ridiculous. Look in the mirror my dudes. I for one enjoy Frasier from time to time and literally was not offended in the least by another persons opinion. Imagine that! Media Criticism is very necessary. You can like something and be critical of it. ESPECIALLY when the lead actor is a fucking piece of shit. I had no idea. that part of the article was like a punch to the gut. Also without looking at the date I could tell when this article was made. Just about the time when I fell into a downward spiral too! I found it very relatable. 2022 changed my outlook on so many things. So yeah.. I’m all for tearing these banal sitcoms apart. They fucking raised me and I’ll never forgive them for it!!
Wow that was a wild ride 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼 Thank you for this article! Could you do a similar article on “Everybody Loves Raymond?” Classic sitcom that’s written quite well in some parts (and genuinely made me laugh out loud by the cast’s performances) but it’s casual sexism has aged pretty badly and it seems to be a time capsule before the middle-class rapidly started disappearing 😅
You need to calm down! I’ve been going through these comments and all I’ve seen is praise and agreement, and it’s jarring. Also, most of these comments are essays in and of themselves, I literally saw a comment say “denominator”! Can we not love an arguably great show nowadays without bringing up all of the isms of recent years?!
I have no dog in this fight. I’m not disagreeing with your take on the show at all. I grew up perusal it. I’m probably older than your regular demographic so I run the risk of sound like a man explaining… I promise you it’s just my autism lol. But on the real and maybe this is just my take. Of course this is just my take. I’m only speaking from my perspective here, but I always thought the show was lampooning people like him. He’s a completely unlikable character. I never saw him as likable and I never talk to my friends about it, but yeah… I guess I missed the point because I never thought it was a celebration of his abhorrent behavior. And I always feel like, the real heroes of the show, or the true perspectives, and again this is just my uneducated opinion. We’re Daphne, his father, and Ross, his producer. Granted, I haven’t watched the show in years, so I could be forgetting some things I’m sure. But my experience was always laughing at him and not with him. Granted, I never liked Seinfeld, because I hate perusal narcissist be shitty to each other. And friends… I could never wrap my head around why it was so popular… Ross is a psychopath. Can we agree on that? Lol I love your articles by the way, whether I agree or not is material, your presentation is fantastic . I loved your dirtbag left article, it actually set me off on a weeklong thought process about that very thing. So fuck yeah man! Much respect and thank you for the brain candy! Things have been rough lately. This is a perfect distraction I say that not in any dismissive way, I need smart things to distract me… Or my brain begins to eat itself.
fraiser was one of those shows that remained “uncomplicated” in my nostalgia as it was one of the few things on tv that would quiet my dysfunctional family. never revisited it in earnest – i’ve summed up fraiser to the uninitiated as “a show about dinner parties gone awry” – very much appreciate the time and effort you took to critically analyzing this piece of media and not doing a multi-hour wank fest about how “classy” this show was
Thank you so much for this article. My parents watched Frasier a lot as I was growing up. While I recognized that a lot of things felt problematic in the show, it’s still paired with a feeling of nostalgia. perusal this article, the nostalgic part of me felt defensive, but in my mind I knew “Yeah, it really is that bad.” In my late teens I watched a lot of Friends in Netflix, and my Christian conservative parents were troubled by it and felt like it was inappropriate. I was confused because I didn’t see any difference between the kind of content in Frasier (a show they loved) and Friends. Looking back, I think both shows fall into the “it’s just the 90’s” trap. Both shows acknowledge gay characters, but they’re still the butt of the joke. Both shows make fun of the male characters when they exhibit “feminine” traits. Frasier and Ross are both awful, snobbish people, but the show treats them as lovable, and expects us to forgive them for the way they treat women.
Well I do happen to say “chick” unironically but that’s partly because I grew up reading and surrounded by entertainment from the time period where it was still common. I think it’s also because I was socially awkward and overthink things so I would try not to use the same noun for things multiple times in one conversation.
I have to admit, as a cis white guy who spent that whole era of my life closeted and “performing” a socially acceptable, exaggerated form of masculinity… it does bother me that I have a blind spot for the show. Probably helps that I felt more endeared to Niles but that has probably more to do with being on a similar wavelength as David Hyde Pierce, heh. I suspect most people don’t consider Frasier their favorite character and I led myself to believe the show was ruthlessly critiquing him but… I’m realizing that my privilege made it easy for me to be comfortable wanting to see it. Whereas most cis white guys are going to lean into the privilege — “this is how guys should act, are allowed to act, and he’s the hero.” I feel guilty that I can still watch the show and enjoy it, but I’m glad to have the wider perspective and this article’s not wrong about the show. Especially given Kelsey Grammar’s behavior and how much free reign he’s still given today. I gave the new show a pass because I could already sense I wouldn’t enjoy it though. I was always there for everyone around Frasier, I guess — the people he put upon, but who stuck around and supported him anyway. Maybe too much, yeah.
I’ve got that TV you show some of the clips on haha. I love the dudes purple hair but idk if he or she is Irish or American or Irish trying to speak American for some reason. I remember there was lots of inconsistencies in frasier like one minute he says he’s a morning person. Then an episode down the line he lectures his family on that he’s not a morning person. Both frasier and niles claim to worship Freud but then episodes down the line niles claims to be unlike frasier being a Freudian he is a jungian.
I came here as someone who remembered Frasier fondly from my childhood and teenage years. But yeah, I’d probably have a rough time with this now. And details like how they repeated a known lie about Lupe Vélez’s death for a weak punchline in the pilot episode are particularly off-putting. A part of getting older seems to be being repeatedly disappointed by media that you once thought was good.