In “A Catholic Case for Vegetarianism”, Andrew Tardiff presents an argument based on classical ethical principles that imply a conditional, though broadly applicable, obligation to avoid eating meat. Utilitarianism, in its classical form, aims at minimizing pain and suffering. Tardiff argues that veganism is not a moral requirement based on the harm footprint argument, which shows that many practices are harmful. He proposes a practical incoherence – a basic failure of logistical analysis – to Singer’s utilitarian argument for vegetarianism, reflecting a general challenge to the moral basis of vegetarianism.
Vegetaris have a greater way of expressing the negative effects of meat on the human body whereas meat eaters have close to no evidence of meat eating being a positive effect on the human body. Tardiff’s “Simplifying the Case for Vegetarianism” shows that we all believe that if we can very easily spare an animal’s life at the expense of a plant or even the “cost” of keeping a clump of dirt intact, then we should avoid eating meat.
However, Tardiff’s argument does not establish its intended conclusion. He argues that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, as vegetarian food is easier to digest when compared to meat. The case for moral vegetarianism appeals to coherence within existing beliefs that are commonly held by nonvegetarians and then proceeds to explore the pros and cons of becoming a vegan or vegetarian.
In summary, Tardiff’s “Simplifying the Case for Vegetarianism” provides a comprehensive argument for the morality of vegetarianism, arguing that there is nothing wrong with eating meat, as vegetarian food is easier to digest than meat.
📹 Carnivore and Vegan Diet Swap: Shocking Blood Results
Is it healthier to eat meat or be a vegetarian?
Vegetarian diets are known for their low calorie content, lower saturated fat and cholesterol levels, and higher levels of fiber, potassium, and vitamin C. They are also associated with lower cancer rates, lower risk of heart disease, and lower LDL cholesterol levels. However, it is unclear whether these health benefits are due to plant-based eating or the healthy lifestyle of most vegetarians. Vegetarians are generally more physically active and have healthier habits than non-vegetarians, and they typically have a higher socioeconomic status.
To understand the effects of diet, large, controlled studies are needed, such as one at Loma Linda University in California, where Cardiologist Dr. Gary Fraser is leading an NIH-funded team to analyze data on 96, 000 Seventh-day Adventists.
How do you justify being vegetarian?
Vegetarian food has a significant impact on the environment, health, and animals. It is a healthier option for humans and animals, as it is lower in carbon dioxide emissions and has fewer harmful substances. Additionally, vegetarian food is better for animals, as it is better for them. As the population is expected to reach 9. 7 billion by 2050, our consumption of natural resources is faster than Earth can replenish them. Without change, we will need the equivalent of three planets’ resources to meet our current needs by 2050. Therefore, adopting a vegetarian diet is a sustainable and environmentally friendly choice.
Was Friedrich Nietzsche a vegetarian?
Nietzsche’s dietary regimen underwent a series of modifications over time. Initially, it consisted of steak, fruits, and vegetables. Subsequently, it transitioned to a vegetarian diet. Ultimately, however, he returned to consuming meat, which he found unsatisfactory.
What are pros and cons of vegetarianism?
Vegetarian diets are often a popular choice for health-conscious individuals, as they offer numerous health benefits such as reducing the risk of chronic diseases like heart disease, diabetes, some cancers, and obesity. However, there are potential downsides to this diet.
A well-balanced vegetarian diet, consisting of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, nuts, and seeds, can provide numerous health-protective vitamins, minerals, antioxidants, and fiber. However, a high-processed vegetarian diet may increase the risk of some chronic diseases. Additionally, there are many junk foods that can fit into a vegetarian diet but are not good for you, such as soda, chips, and cookies. Packaged vegetarian meals and snacks may contain high amounts of added sugar, sodium, and fat, offering little nutritional value.
To ensure a healthy vegetarian diet, it is essential to consider both the pros and cons of the diet. By understanding the pros and cons of a vegetarian diet, individuals can make an informed decision about their health and lifestyle.
Do utilitarians believe in eating animals?
The ethical choice to abstain from meat consumption must be weighed against the costs of climate change, productivity loss, disease, and improper nutrition, as proposed by the utilitarian theory of ethics.
What is the utilitarian perspective on veganism?
Those who espouse utilitarianism contend that the production of meat for human consumption is morally reprehensible and a source of diminished overall happiness. This has given rise to a discourse surrounding the adoption of vegetarian or vegan lifestyles.
Is it good or bad to be a vegetarian?
Vegetarian diets are gaining popularity due to health benefits such as reducing heart disease, diabetes, and some cancers. However, some diets may be too heavy on processed foods with high calories, sugar, fat, and salt, and may not include enough fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and nutrient-rich foods. A vegetarian diet can meet the needs of people of all ages, pregnant or breastfeeding, and requires awareness of nutritional needs to plan a suitable diet.
What is the argument for vegetarianism?
A vegetarian diet is beneficial for the environment as it reduces soil compaction, erosion, and harm to native plants and animals. Overgrazing livestock has damaged streams and riparian areas in the western United States, and has been listed under the Endangered Species Act due to the interruption of natural habitats. A vegetarian diet also conserves water, as producing one pound of beef takes about 1, 800 gallons of water, while one pound of pork uses about 576 gallons, turkey needs about 486 gallons, and chicken needs about 468 gallons.
Raising animals for food also contributes to air and water pollution, as manure produces toxic hydrogen sulfide and ammonia, which pollute the air and leach poisonous nitrates into nearby waters. Runoff laden with manure is a major cause of “dead zones” in 173, 000 miles of U. S. waterways, including the 7, 700-square-mile dead zone in the Gulf of Mexico.
What is the justification for vegetarianism?
Vegetarians are often motivated by health, religious beliefs, animal welfare concerns, and environmental concerns. The popularity of vegetarianism has grown due to the availability of fresh produce, vegetarian dining options, and the growing influence of plant-based diets. Historically, vegetarianism was primarily focused on potential nutritional deficiencies, but recent studies have confirmed the health benefits of meat-free eating. Plant-based eating is now recognized as nutritionally sufficient and a way to reduce the risk of chronic illnesses.
The American Dietetic Association states that appropriately planned vegetarian diets are healthful, nutritionally adequate, and may provide health benefits in the prevention and treatment of certain diseases. However, becoming a vegetarian requires following guidelines on nutrition, fat consumption, and weight control. A wide variety of fruits, vegetables, and whole grains is essential for health, and saturated and trans fats should be replaced with good fats like those found in nuts, olive oil, and canola oil.
Overeating calories, even from nutritious, low-fat, plant-based foods, can lead to weight gain. Therefore, portion control, reading food labels, and regular physical activity are essential for maintaining a healthy vegetarian lifestyle.
Why are so many utilitarians vegetarian?
The consumption of meat has the effect of increasing the demand for meat products, which in turn has the consequence of reducing the supply. A vegetarian diet results in a reduction in the number of nonhuman animals involved in meat production, thereby reducing the incidence of animal suffering.
📹 The Share-Washing of Late Stage Capitalism
Podcast (co-hosted with Marine from A Privileged Vegan): veganvanguardpodcast.com ___ Sources: Ben-Shahar, O., 2017.
The point I failed to articulate is that someone who quits a vegan diet for a health experiment clearly isn’t a vegan in the ethical / lifestyle sense. I foresee people being frustrated by this and I didn’t really address it thoroughly. Regardless, there are clearly lessons to be gleaned from a dietary input perspective here. Enjoy the article.
I work in the medical field and I worked with a dr who is a hunter and a super carnivorous person. He made fun of my veganism every time he saw me. Two weeks ago he ended up having an emergency quadruple bypass surgery. He told me that he’s 1/2 vegan now…. and ‘I should be proud’. It’s sad that it took something so drastic to get him to see the light lol. I think there’s still hope for him. I will make sure to help him to become 100% vegan. The science is on our side!
I think what’s lost sometimes in these arguments is the simplicity. Even if a vegan or vegetarian diet was only ‘nutritionally adequate’ and not ‘better than meat-eating’, isn’t that good enough? Imagine if you went to a bar and the bartender says, “These two beers are the same price, same calories, same alcohol, same taste, same temperature. But if you choose the beer on the left, I have to kick my dog every time you order one. If you choose the beer on the right, I don’t kick the dog.” Wouldn’t you choose the beer on the right, even if it wasn’t a waayyy better beer? Wouldn’t ‘just as good” be good enough?
Young Vietnam soldiers coming back in body bags in the late 60s early 70s, through autopsies, were found to have 20%, 40%, 60% blockage in coronary arteries and veins. They grew up on the old food pyramid of the ’50s and ’60s. Beef, pork, bacon and eggs, cheese etc at the bottom. Legumes, grains, Veggies, and fruit at the top.
In my mid 20’s, as a “carnivore, ” I ate very healthy, and worked out constantly. I had been flagged for kidney issues for several years and underwent numerous tests. I switched to a vegan diet. I still have moments of weakness with pizza and chicken wings. Over three years, I have great kidney function and no medical flags at all. My kidneys are operating optimally now.
A vegan diet is not necessarily a healthy diet. For example, I could be vegan and drink sodas, eat chips, french fries, and Oreo cookies every day. However, a whole food plant based diet with limited oil and salt is a very healthy way to live. I think everyone just kind of lumps all vegans in the same category, when not all vegans are healthy eaters. I think most people that have health problems after going “vegan” such as so many of the ex vegan YouTubers that we’ve been seeing lately were not eating a well balanced whole food plant based diet. I don’t personally care how people choose to eat, to each their own. But this is my observation. PS I’m a wfpb vegan and healthier than I’ve been in my entire life and I’m no spring chicken.
Please do the kidney article! Kidney failure is no joke and the vegan diet can help. Anecdotally, my mother went plant based in her 70s after being diagnosed with stage 3 kidney disease. She has reversed her kidney disease so that her kidneys are now at stage 2, sometimes she goes back to stage 1 for her age. I went vegan to support her and live more ethically and my kidneys also improved even though I did not have kidney disease… overachievers.
I did Carnivore diet (i.e. ALL fresh unprocessed meat fish diet,not just ‘high meat’ which is highly ambiguous as to other stuff in the diet, processed meat, etc) for a month and I got leaner, digestion improved, body odor was near zero, and had unbelievable amounts of mental and physical energy. My depression, anxiety and OCD improved noticeably. Also my chronic prostatitis symptoms IMPROVED. The only reason I’ve gone back to a more omnivorous diet is because I’m still not sure what effect the long term effect of a carnivore diet wil have on kidney function and longevity. I will revisit it, but probably do less protein more fat
I changed to a all meat diet as a elimination diet to see what would happen. I have been dealing with severe fatigue for years. I tried everything so eating meat for a month was worth a shot. I lost 20 lbs the first month and quit taking stimulants to stay awake for more than 4 hours at a time. I don’t take migraine meds anymore. Many other crazy things happened also. I have tried adding foods back in unsuccessfully. Its been about a year now and I feel great. I’m not writing this to start a argument or promote my diet. This is just my experience. I don’t do it to be more healthy or try to live to 100. I do it because I’m a better father and husband now than I have been for years prior. Life is good but restaurants suck.
Mic, about the kidney part.. I gave away one kidney 4/ 5 years ago, had bloodwork followups every year after this kidney donation. Now since 12 – 14 months I started eating a whole food plant based (almost) vegan diet… My kidney function is almost as before the donation (LOL!), some measurements where scoring in the red after they took 1 kidney out (understandable since you only got one), now those went from red to gray / green scores!
The vegetable police is a youtuber who has struggled a lot with his health. He was vegan for ages, but tried going carnivore for like 10 months to see if it helped. It did in some ways, but not others. He also got his blood checked and was very alarmed by his decreased kidney function and several other biomarkers and is currently back on his plant based diet. He just made a article about his blood tests not too long ago if you want to watch it. He’s pretty funny, too. So that’s a bonus.
I have cousin who is type 1.5 diabetic. Initially he followed low carb high protein and high fat protocol as per all the research. He was still taking high insulin and doctors said it is good. Doctors said count your carbs and all the maths. 😅😅 then he read about how WFPB diet can drastically improve his health and insulin requirements, and to his surprise he is eating around 300gm of carbs and insulin requirements has reduced less than half and to very minimal. He is getting better day after day and now he believes WFPB is way to go. 😊😊
Hi mic. Please read this comment… There are some people i know (even Joe Rogan who I don’t like but the guy has a fan following and is still an okay YouTuber) who say that epidemiological studies aren’t accurate enough. I tell them “sure, they don’t show causation, but such a strong correlation can’t be ignored.” Then I also point to some meta analyses and cohort and diet control studies which they again refuse to listen to . Can you make a article on the validity of these studies and which is the most reliable ( For instance, expert opinion is least reliable and meta analyses are the most and so on). Thanks a ton mic for all that you do . A article is much needed for this !!
Why inflammation goes up with a vegan diet. bad over processed oils like vegan cheese and fake meats etc. full of chemicals. I was lucky to become vegan more than 30 years ago when these things were not quite as available. When I eat fake cheese I get immediate back ache the next day. From fake meat Beyond burgers I loved them…my head hurts as I’m eating it. I guess I’m lucky to be so sensitive. Eat real food and don’t eat too many refined carbs without vegetables or you’ll end up pre-diabetic. Great show Mike!!
Mic. I’ve been subscribed for well over a year, been vegan for close to 3 and vegetarian before that. YouTubers like you and Vegan gains have helped me a lot. I do my fair share of logically arguing that plant based is the way to people that challenge our views and I’ve convinced many of my friend’s to either lower their intake of meat or stop altogether. This is due to a fair, unbiased, logical and fact based approach I use when arguing. I owe thanks to you for much of the information I’ve learned. However, the whole section on vitamin D was a bit slimy on your part. At 11:29 we can clearly see that the vegan diet is well below normal but went into the normal range and the meat eaters was fine before going vegan. Your explanation of ” the vegan probably just got more sun” is dishonest. It does not explain why the meat eaters level dropped so significantly( surely he got more sun too?). This is the kind of bias that gives vegans a bad name. I agree with you whole heartedly on just about everything. This isn’t an attack I’m just playing devil’s advocate and giving constructive criticism but shrugging something like this off is giving people ammo to attack you for being a “biased typical vegan” Take care. Please keep up the great content
I will never do a vegan diet again. Always hungry, depressed even though I had no history of it, had to take meds for type 2 diabetes and had high blood pressure that caused really bad headaches. Went keto, leaning more towards carnivore and I have lost 60 lbs, I ditched my diabetes meds, no more headaches and my blood pressure has gone down, back to my non depressed self, and I am able to fast for 16 hours and not feel like I’m starving.
Could you be more misleading dude? Your comparison of cholesterol numbers are whack. When I went from 100% plant (7 mos) to Keto, I knew my LDL numbers would rise and they did. That’s to be expected and is normal. LDL is not bad but necessary. If they become oxidized (damaged) and you have small sized LDL, that’s a problem. So you should have included a Lipid Size test to determine the type of LDL of the meat eater. Odds are he increased his large fluffy LDL. And while you are at it, test for Testosterone because that is dependent on cholesterol!
My husband became a vegetarian when we met over two decades ago (!!). Over the years, he gained weight because he was a junk food vegetarian (not a vegan). Anyway, once he was about 30 lbs overweight, he decided that being a vegetarian was the reason and it was all my fault for “making” him become veg. He started eating meat, but at the same time, cut out all sugar and went low carb, much to my horror. He has lost over 30 lbs and says hhe feels better than ever. Now he is convinced that a veg diet makes you sick and fat. Great. He harasses me about eating meat for “good health.” I have awakened into a nightmare. Thanks for reading while I vent. Help. Edit.. I forgot to add that I am 90% vegan but real cheese slips into my diet every great once iin a while. I also had a health event in which I became very sick about 10 years ago. He says it is from my diet, but it had nothing to do with it.
So I’m a complete carnivore. My diet is primarily meat. I eat chicken, steak, and ground beef every day. I eat a lot of meat. Probably 3 pounds a day. One day I ate a handful of carrots and walnuts and my body rejected it. I got a bad stomach ache and I was on the toilet all day. As soon as I ate a steak, my body went back to normal lol
I would be interested to know about other observations of these two men, especially bowel activity. Did the plant-to-meat guy get constipated, did the meat-to-plant guy notice more bowel movements? Did they notice any changes in their skin etc etc. Did either one decide to stick with the alternative diet?
Name one disease that modern medicine has a real cure for? Now with that said, i went vegan for about 6 months and i always had gas, was tired, lost weight (muscle mass as i was already pretty lean) and never felt clear in thought. I went back to eating like a sane person and made a full recovery. Ohh i forgot to mention that i got sick twice in a 6 month time frame. When i want back to eating meat (low carb diet as i naturally just don’t like breads, pastas etc) i feel fantastic again. I am 41 years old have not been sick in over a year, i can stay up til 1am during a work night and still wake up at 5am to work a 11 hour shift without being tired. As a Vegan i found myself wanting to take naps during the day and going to bed almost immediately after work. Just be safe and healthy, people. It’s not a contest. Now im going to go have me a nice vegan raised ribeye steak. lol
Sorry Mic, but your argument is severely flawed. Your assumption that LDL causes heart disease has since been disproved. High levels of LDL, which plays a really important role in the human body, does not cause heart disease or atherosclerosis! Studies have revealed that the correlation between LDL and mortality, confirming that lower levels of LDL, were associated with higher mortality rates and higher LDL lower mortality. Quote ” LDL cholesterol is not as ‘bad’ as may be thought, and higher levels are not linked to all-cause or cardiovascular mortality”. IGF-1 is crucial in healing and tends to be low in those with chronic inflammation, its action in the body is to reproduce and regenerate cells! The fact that IGF-1 is lower on Vegan diet is due to higher levels of inflammation. Conversely on Carnivore IGF-1 levels increased, reflecting lower inflammation and will cause the body to become more efficient at cell reproduction and regeneration, leading to faster recovery from injury. I don’t wish to write a long message, as I think I have proved my point, showing that you are factually incorrect.
Looked into the ‘carnivore’ (drewmorg) and it doesn’t seem like he’s a carnivore, lots of vegan stuff on his website. Apparently he’s been a ‘carnivore’ for 2 years but hasn’t had an active youtube website. All of a sudden once this ‘study’ started he begins uploading multiple ‘carnivore’ articles per week, a bit suspicious of the results being skewed as he might be a fake carnivore. I don’t eat a lot of meat but I believe it has a place in most diets
Yes plzzzz on the kidney article. Also – w.r.t ethics: if the vegan guy went carnivore but an existing carnivore went vegan for the same period of time, theoretically it’s the same in terms of animal/environmental destruction. And having the publicity and amazing health results from this experiment is likely to dissuade people from trying carnivore and encourage more people to try eating plant-based. So I would argue that the vegan guy’s decision aligns with the definition of veganism
I wanted to do my own “study” and compare a vegan I know to a carnivore I know, and decide which one looks better. After thinking about it for a while, I don’t know such people. I have heard of a person who is vegan. My mom said he lost a lot of weight (in a good way). I haven’t even heard of someone knowing a carnivore. This article is backed by a lot of studies, which is good. I’ve been perusal “vegans” and “carnivores” debating on Youtube for a week now. It’s very entertaining 🙂
Hi Mic the Vegan. I hope you’re well. Please educate yourself. Refer to Dr Paul Mason for an insight on how cholesterol work in the body. Bottom line: Cholesterol is life. High cholesterol does not mean you are more prone to have a heart attack. Both, LDL Cholesterol particle size and oxidised LDL cholesterol play a paramount role in determining cardiovascular risk. All the best!
The vitamin D issue looks like a weakness here if you can explain it away that the vegan was probably in the sun more often because of the change of weather then you would apply that to the meat eater unless they are both in different hemispheres of the world. not sure about their locations in this study. but I would say that prior to the study, they should control for sun exposure and recommend they both find some way to each get the same amount of sun before and after to be sure to limit its influence.
It takes longer for some things to manifest their numbers in the body than others. If they would have went longer the vegan to meat guy would have seen big changes eventually and so the meat to vegan guy, but it would take longer. I would think that age has a lot to do with the changes and how fast they occur as well! For instance if you are younger it will take longer for you to screw up your body and create an unhealthy atmosphere in it! 😉 The older you get the easier it is to become unhealthy when you are doing (eating) all the wrong things to your body! Just my theory.
Bunk. Before this guy was born there was the macrobiotics (vegan) craze of the 1960s, 70s, and 80s. Big promises of how this vegan diet was the total answer to health issues, especially cancer and heart disease. Thousands of people did this vegan diet, which emphasizes very high-quality vegetable foods, no sugar, no dairy, all organic. The results were that there was no difference in health outcomes or longevity. Many of the macrobiotic teachers got cancer or died young from heart disease. Most shockingly, children raised on this vegan diet were almost always very short and obviously lacking nutritional needs. This is why you don’t hear about macrobiotics anymore. But nowadays, the vegan movement pretends that veganism is something new, and they’re trotting out the same bogus promises. The vegan diet has already been tried and, at best, it’s nothing special. It’s certainly not a diet for longevity. Moreover, many vegans of this era are finding they must quit the diet and return to eating meat, and when they began eating keto their health problems were resolved. As for cholesterol, we’re now learning that it’s not the health hazard we’ve been told it is. Have you ever heard of anyone who was thin, a big meat eater, and had a heart attack from high LDL? That kind of thing just doesn’t happen.
A friend at work in his 50’s had a angina attack and was rushed to the hospital and received 3 stints. I was talking about this to another coworker and said he needs to go full on vegan/plant based for his health. The guy said and I quote…”I would rather die than give up eating meat.” I don’t get meateaters suicidal response to the facts about meat consumption. Thanks for the great article, I believe you are saving some rational lives with these great science based facts.
Answer me this Einstein if you say that cholesterol is bad why are over half the people with heart disease and over half of the heart attacks look it up have normal cholesterol levels? if cholesterol is a high risk factor for heart disease and shouldn’t people with normal cholesterol levels not have it.
I think it would have been cool to see their blood results again after they go back to their old diets. I read in the comments that the youtuber dismissed the results, but what did the “meat to vegan guinea pig” decide to do? It were his results afterall, with such a nice drop in LDL and CRP, did he go back?
Just a thought on the centenarians and cholesterol. It could be that they were once on cholesterol lowering meds and once they hit a certain age they stopped taking them. I have seen this before as people decide (with or without the help of a physician) that quality of life means fewer meds and the focus is no longer on extending life.
KETO is not carnivore. You are incorrect. 90% carnivore is KETO. The vegan that went “carnivore” did not go carnivore, he went even higher carb. This was flawed in every way. Also, you are behind on the science of cholesterol. Watch Drs. Anthony Chafee, Paul Saladino, Ken Berry among others by searching their names on YouTube along with “cholesterol” and you will find out how the bought and paid for studies by the sugar and other industries were falsified, and cholesterol’s true place in health, and look at some true studies. And are you aware of how EVERY animal dies in the wild? It is not pretty getting torn apart and eaten alive from another animal, as opposed to the quick and merciful death of an ethical hunter. Are you aware of how many animals get killed in the process of growing your vegetables? Whole fields are plowed under and thousands of animals die this way each year. Torn apart by blades and machines. We did not adapt for millions of years to eat plants; meat was the primary food for this time. This is proven by those who studied the bones of these ancients. The meat eating time was when our brains had the greatest growth. Be open minded and take a look. I am 70 years old, can walk, run, on no meds, have stamina. Everyone of my vegetarian age peer girlfriends has had some sort of knee, hip replacement; some have arthritis, joint pain, meds. Not me –ketovore (95% meat, fish, butter, eggs), nor my carnivore peers. By the way, that “Blue Zone” film was filled with falsities.
I’m what’s called an obligate carnivore, I have an innate need to consume protine, in the form of meat. But I’ll eat my veg also, gimme a thick juicy medium rare steak, with a lil salad and mushrooms on the side.👍🏻 I cut out Potatoes Pasta and Bread, and dropped from a fatty 15.6 stones down to a much better fitter 13.2 stone, meat doesn’t make you fat, but vegtables and grain can.
thank you for the article! i think it would have been useful to show the calcium and iron levels too, even though the results might not have been relevant. i personally struggle to meet daily recommendations of these two nutrients since giving up meat and dairy, and it seems as something people who are against veganism might cherry pick on
This info is misleading. You don’t seem to know much about cholesterol or how it works. Of course a higher fat diet (like carnivore or keto) is going to raise your cholesterol because your body NEEDS the cholesterol to move the higher amount of fat you have been eating in order to use it properly. Low fat diets (vegan, vegetarian) have lower cholesterol because the body doesn’t have as much fat to move. So if you have high levels but are eating high fat and live a healthy lifestyle, it means absolutely nothing in terms of increased chances of heart disease or death related to cholesterol.
Triglycerides/HDL ratio is by far a better metric of heath than LDL LDL — have you ever heard of LDL particle size? Not all LDL is created equal. Do you know that the focus on LDL as a risk is because pharmaceutic companies have not been successful in targeting HDL to raise it with drugs. French eat the most animal fat, think duck liver, meat, and have one of the lowest cardiovascular heart disease in the world. Inuit or maasai did not not about cardiovascular disease. High carbohydrates, starches sugar raise triglycerides and lower HLD. Saturated fat lowers triglycerides and raises HDL. Low fat vegetarian diets are linked to stroke — the rate of stroke in Japan has considerably gone down since they were able to prosper and increase animal foods in their diets. Please don’t mix propaganda with science.
Great article! As an FYI before you make your kidney article, BUN is not pronounced as “bun,” but rather by the letters B.U.N. One of my classmates was humiliated by a physician during one of our clinical rotations 5 years ago for saying bun rather than B.U.N., and I’ve never forgotten the correct pronunciation since. 🙂
I am 45, vegetarian since 1994, lacto-vegetarian since 2010, and vegan since February 2020. My blood results (November 2020) where surprising. My bad cholesterol levels were lower that the limits, my good cholesterol was above the limits, my triglycerides were lower, my blood pressure was 100/80 and my glucose way lower than the average. Pretty good for a 45 year old female with 3 teens.
I’ve been vegan before (Dr Joel Fuhrman Eat to Live) and felt amazing but it was a lot of work. It became harder and harder, I stopped losing weight, I fell off the wagon when my cat died, and then ate really badly. Now I’m trying Lion Diet for digestive issues, hormones and I’ve lost 8 pounds. I used to be in a doctor’s practice where one doctor was vegan and the other was low carb, and the low carb guy’s skin just looked healthier, less wrinkles. The vegan looked not healthy. On Carnivore I’ve experienced a complete healing of my dyshydrotic eczema, and unexpected things like my scalp itch is gone. My lips are not dry anymore. The carnivore diet does make your whole body exude oil (but without clogging pores). I also did Trim Healthy Mama several years ago and they theorize that rotating between high fat and low fat confuses the metabolism and keeps use losing weight. I’m considering doing some variation of that, alternating vegan days with carnivore days. My Lion Diet experience is only 3 weeks. I am worried about the numbers and wouldn’t consider this long term, but people are getting remission from severe RA and other autoimmune illnesses. You can’t deny that if people are sensitive to certain plants and if they don’t assault their immune system with those over and over, it probably gives them a chance to heal. Our current allergy and sensitivity tests are leaving out something important. I’m definitely not going back on regular milk, cheese or gluten no matter which way I eat.
I was on ketogenic diet for about 5 months. At first I lost some weight and I felt good. But later on I was feeling tired, sleepy, cold, no weight loss, my hair was very thin. Then I read about blood type diet. My blood type is A and vegeterian type diet is recommended for As. Ketogenic diet seems to be more suitable for blood type Os. May this cause the personel different results of the diets?
Interesting diet test. Love to see more of these to see what’s typical. My wife and I tried vegan. Both our moods got bad. Hers got so bad it was bad for my health! Choosing a diet is not simple. A diet that kills one person may help another. Out of desperation I went carnivore to help my severe arthritis. Night and day better. I wouldn’t recommend it to anyone unless you have a major problem. Then it may be worth trying, especially when nothing else works.
Here is something very interesting. Long long ago there was a society called “the Lumanians”. They were a nonviolent society. They would not kill even animals – and they did not eat plants, i assume – because they figured a way to make food from technology. These ppl were tall and skinny. However, they were very weak, and because of their fear of violence, they isolated themselves and lived in constant alert while they also suppressed many of their natural expressions. They tried to convince other groups around them to be like them. It didn’t work. They then moved somewhere else. Later on, they sent some of their people back to live with those same natives they had failed to convince. They mingled and made children with these natives. Things didn’t work as they planned, however. Later on this society tried to genetically manipulate their own physical bodies so not to physically react to violent urges.They encountered some problems. To avoid contact with the outside world – wild animals and other people – they build underground habitats. In fact, the caves found in modern Spain were the entrances to these underground habitats. Anaway, when encountered with situations they’d have to defend themselves, they would not do anything about it; this because they also believed that their god would help them. Now, here is the thing: they imagined their god to be everything they gave up about themselves. Their god was supposed to be strong, powerful, and even violent when It had to.This information can be found in the book (or audio on youtube) Seth Speaks, book 2, chapter 15.
what is frustrating is realizing that no matter how much evidence is gathered and no matter what the results of their own ‘diet challenges’ say, there is absolutely no getting through to these idiots. god Herself could descend on a vegetable-medley rainbow and turn the sea to kale smoothie and they would STILL try to find some justification for their crappy eating patterns.
No account appears to have been made regarding the gut-flora. Absorption of nutrients etc is dependent on what microbial environment is present in the bowel and any change in diet will cause a change in that environment… eventually, allowing more efficient processing of that food-type. Vegans have gut-flora that handle a plant-based diet most effectively and non-vegans have guts that do the best they can with the greater amounts of animal-based food. The study-team should have stabilised both subjects on similar diet (augmented by identical pre- and pro-biotics) for, say, 30 days and THEN flipped them to their opposite food-culture. Also, some folks are just different. One vegan is going to flourish (or not) differently from another vegan.
Very interesting article. I started my weight-loss journey thanks to Dr. Berg the keto guru, but I am also curious about how other methods work, so here I am. Protecting the environment is not my main goal, so purely for health reasons. One of the main concerns about the keto diet is that most of its food contains high purines, which can fucked up oneself really bad, and the solution is eating enough green to combat it due to Dr. Berg. Wait a minute…then how about reducing meat and increasing veggies? Fibers usually don’t cause insulin spikes anyways, and it also makes you feel full. I might not try to be a hardcore vegan, but I do plan to reduce the bacon I used from now on.
They need to do the experiment again but with people who are the same age : ) you need to reduce the variables in the experiment. Also would be worth doing the experiment with people who eat a similar diet then one goes vegan and the other goes carnivore then at the end they swap diets and then go back to eating how they were and taking blood tests along the way. Apart from that this was an awesome experiment.
I’m glad you mentioned the limitations of it only being a 30 day test. As far as blood results go it means nothing on either side. Ultimately both sides lose. It’s been proven that a balanced diet of both is the best option for your health. As far as a moral decision goes….. everyone is free to do as we choose. Personally cows and pigs are delicious 🤷🏼♂️🤷🏼♂️
“A bunch of people lived to 100 and had high cholesterol…High cholesterol is healthy!” Yeah, my ex boyfriend lived on a diet of 30 cigarettes a day, 10 coffees and some bread and steak. His cholesterol was completely fine, blood work totally normal. So there you have it, smoking and drinking pools of coffee is super healthy! 🤣 How logical! Well no. He had a blood clot in his brain.
Funny how you go over very fast on the points that don’t go in favor of a vegan diet but really highlights the changes that confirms your bias. That wasn’t an objective analysis Mic. Why would you even do a article on that, it’s completely irrelevant, it’s 2 completely different people, we don’t know what they were eating, it wasn’t even a carnivore diet. Carnivore is 100% animal products like vegan is 100% plants.
You said that the meat eater in this experiment was on a high meat low carb diet? Interesting….yeah that’s what causes a Rise in LDL sometimes, BUT that’s only because that kind of diet lowers insulin and increases fat metabolism so you have a lot of triglycerides and cholesterol coming out of the cell, so for some people they respond by more LDL which isn’t a bad thing in this case. There is a test you can get with your doctor to determine the particle size of LDL and if they are big it’s fine – it’s the smaller ones which are on high carb diets that are dangerous. This just shows you fail to understand LDL and that it’s not always “bad” cholesterol. What’s more is that cholesterol is a building block for hormones like cortisol, testosterone, etc. I’d take a high cholesterol, HDL and even LDL given I’m on a low carb diet sorry!
Hi Mic — thanks for the analysis on our experiment and discussing each of the major biomarkers. I’m hoping we’ll have follow up tests soon with both participants as each has returned to their previous diet. And if so, we’ll report those transparently as we have with these. My hope is that we’ll have further experiments ahead to help gather a greater aggregate of data. Special thanks to Chase and Joe who underwent this experiment for our benefit in further data. Cheers!
Lol, do some research on how cholesterol works please. Hdl and ldl are not cholesterols. They are transports for cholesterol to different parts of the body. Ldl raises on carnivore because your body goes into ketosis burning its own fat. Ldl carries the triglycerides from that fat burning. Either way, the numbers come down after your body is adjusted. But, go ahead and stay vegan and taking your vitamin and iron supplements. Hmmmm, i wonder why if began is so healthy your body can’t absorb most of the nutrients you’re eating…?
You better read the journal Expert Review of Clinical Pharmocology. Volume 11 2018. Issue 10. “LDL does not cause cardiovascular disease: a comprehensive review of current literature”. It appears that it is all inverse and that people with low LDL are at higher risk of CVD. It also appears that having cancer or infections may result DUE to low LDL. Therefore, as I see it high LDL and total cholesterol is protective. Please do your own current research and see for yourself.
As a Doctor, please learn basic biology before you misinform others. EVERY HUMAN CELL is covered with a cell wall that is composed mainly of phospholipids and CHOLESTEROL, the brain itself is made up of around 40% cholesterol. Biovailability – basically means how much our body absorb from food. For example, you can eat 1 kg of nuts and avocado ( which are high in fat ) but your body only absorbs 1-3% of it, making you deficient in fat. The bioavailability in animal products are more than 82%. Since your whole entire body cells are made up of fat and cholesterol and are constantly regenerating, if the basic build-up is missing, then you are slowly dying with out realizing it. Calling cholesterol the “bad guy” is spreading misinformation. If you are not a licensed Doctor, then DON’T ACT LIKE ONE. You wouldn’t build a house with a weak foundation, so why would you on purposely Not feed your body the correct nutrients it needs to function properly.
For optimal health….85-90% non meat and 10-15% meat. You need at least small amounts. My doctor said that Vegan is most definitely healthier than carnivorous….but a little bit of meat is healthy for the body. Americans consume too much on average and thats the problem. 1-3servings a day is the recommended…most americans consume more than twice that. Ill never go 100% vegan but I can see the wisdom in replacing almost all of my diet with non-animal foods.
LDL by itself does not a risk factor, it is inflammation in the arteries. LDL is not the culprit, it comes to repair the damage artery lining, like a band-aid on a wound. Our body uses alot of cholesterol, both HDL and LDL. So, could it be the guy with the largest risk of heart disease is the guy who is eating the steak, or the guy who eats a loaf of bread and a baked potato with his steak ? There is no proof that the steak causes inflammation, but there is scientific proof that too much sugar ( carbohydrates) causes inflammation and insulin resistance. We know there is a correlation between insulin resistance and disease.
High blood LDL has been shown to not be associated or inversely associated with all cause mortality and there is no link between this and heart disease. GOOGLE IT. It’s not about being “lucky ass.” The C Reactive protein NEEDS to be studied in a much larger population as it can increase substantially if you have an infection of any sort or any other number of factors. Basically, your whole preface to this article is correct – it means nothing. As I continue to watch this, the cherry picking gets more cringey. The IGF-1 were all normal, slightly higher on meat, but well within reference range for their assumed ages. But then completely gloss over the homocysteine levels being higher on the vegan diet. He didn’t get more vitamin D from the meat, it’s cause of the summer. But the C Reactive protein HUGE increase WAS DEFINITELY BECAUSE OF THE DIET. LOL!! Then the BUN, that too can easily go on the high end of normal because of dehydration, stress, minor infections, etc. Only a trend continuing up would be concerning.
Just like the Game Changer article, they do not mention the quality of the meat. What about those people that seem to be very healthy for many years with lots of energy that are eating raw meat? But they are eating high quality raw meat that is grass feed that is cooked in it’s own fat and not in some other unhealthy fat with other crap on it. And not low quality meat like what they’re mostly likely using in these studies which probably isn’t grass feed and probably cooked in some other bad for you oil with stuff on it. What about this tribe in Africa that are supposedly very healthy and live on raw meat, blood and milk? I wonder what the results would be if these studies were done with high quality raw meat instead of low quality cooked meat.
Also btw drewmorg isn’t a carnivore dieter. He just advocates for it because he got ill health on a vegan diet and supposedly healed himself eating solely animal products. Just thought I should specify. He did the experiment to be as unbiased as possible (he said). Even though he leans towards meat. He even started a vegan dating app a while back and was strong into the ethics. But ill health makes people do strange things. I do also feel he was fairly unbiased and mostly respectful during this experiment. I don’t think the numbers would convince him or the other carnivore guy to go vegan though because they both did not feel well being vegan
Cholesterol levels don’t matter, in fact you will live longer with high cholesterol than low. But it matters what the particle type is and whether or not you have got inflammation from a high carb diet. VLDL, is small hard and beady, and produced in response to a high carb diet and the presence of inflammation. VLDL is easily oxidised by glucose so it goes to the ongoing inflammation to try to heal it, but just keeps sinking into the damaged area and forms a plaque. That is how you get heart disease, from carbs not fat and meat. When people eat an all meat diet they produce more LDL, which is big fluffy and harmless, and as you have no inflammation you absolutely will not get heart disease . You will live longer because your body is running n a healthy manner and the LDL is not going to do you any harm. in fact it is going to be doing all the other things cholesterol does in the body, and should be doing as we cannot live with out cholesterol. When you start keto or carnivore, initially as your body heals inflammation from carb eating, you will produce more cholesterol but it goes back down again in about 6 months. So a 30 day trial told you absolutely nothing about long term health and you coupled ignorance about cholesterol with a diet trial that was not done for a long enough period of time to prove anything conclusive. Even doctors are completely ignorant about cholesterol and do a test for over all levels which tells them nothing. People with heart disease can have lower to normal levels of cholesterol, it’s not how much cholesterol you have it’s how much LDL to VLDL you have got but how much and inflammation you have got going on.
Just one question what makes you say LDL is “bad cholesterol” just because you have high cholesterol doesn’t mean you have high chance of heart attack maybe on average but on average most people have a shitty diet too, so there LDL is mainly full of cholesterol to heal there damaged organs rather than triglyceride which gives energy. Shitty diet==> high LDL with high amount of cholesterol to heal inflammation in your body made from carbs, Good diet ==> with high amount of triglyceride
I have been interacting with vegans who go carnivore and I was someone, who when I was young basically went carnivore. Mostly I went Atkins to lose weight without hunger, but hated the Keto vegetable choices, so I just ate meat. Sometime down the road, I started throwing up whenever I ate meat and I became an exclusively junk food vegetarian for decades. Anyway, I told one of them that after I was off meat, I did the math and if I had stayed that high meat carnivore version of Atkins, it would have likely been that between 80,000 and 100,000 animals would have died for my appetites. Honestly, I am so glad that I became allergic to meat. I still haven’t really lost all that much weight even going almost Whole Food Plant Based vegan over a year and a half ago, but no matter what I am glad that the animals aren’t dying.
I have a mostly carnivorous diet and I know a vegan diet is better beyond a shadow of a doubt but I just find it so hard to change. I literally can’t think of any vegetables I like and I only like 1 fruit. It’s hard to sustain myself on a diet that I have so few options to choose from. I try to eat vegetables and I can’t even get myself to swallow them.
I would like to see a study in which people who were vegan for several years (for ‘health’ reasons; a ‘moral’ vegan wouldnt participate) incorporate a MODERATE amount of lean meats, fish, and eggs into their diet, and see what happens then. There are lots of things that are bad for you if you eat too much of it. Like, sugar is vegan, and that shit activates diabetic genes if you eat too much. I dont think people need to be at one extreme or the other to optimize their health.
Lots of unknown variables here… what kind of carbs was he eating and was he eating grass fed meat and the organs also? Was the type of LDL tested? Large vs small dense? These results are not very relevant without that information. The biggest danger is high levels of small dense LDL which come mostly from gut inflammation. A high fat meat based diet is proven to lower inflammation in the gut but can raise the large LDL levels and skew the results.
When you use words like “cholesterol denier” you sound like a dogmatically religious person and it makes you much less believable. Just like climate alarmists who call anyone skeptical of the climate hysteria “climate deniers” this is religious language, reductive and dismissive. don’t let your passion for veganism become your religion.
Small comment… My doctor wanted me to go on statins. (My blood tests were excellent, but he wanted me to do better due to family history) He said to give my way a try and get new blood-work done in three months. I cut out oils, nuts, and coconuts, and instead of waiting three months, I waited three weeks. I got a phone message from him to keep up the good work. Three weeks. …and I was already vegan and fat avoidant. YOU CAN MAKE POSITIVE CHANGE AND IT WORKS AMAZINGLY FAST! Sorry for shouting. People can take responsibility for their health. It’s the food.
Honestly in the end it’s all about clean eating in my experience. I had grate experience on both carnivore and raw vegan diet. For me who has to work with lots of information during the day lots of fruits seems to be working grate for me! I’m only doing it for performance reasons, I don’t have any issues with hunting or anything like that! Still experimenting, but I guess I’m slowly finding a good balance between the two and what works best for me! I had bowl issues for months on my carnivore diet tho so that’s worth to note.
What about HDL? That seems to be the also important factor in cholesterol. You are right too much LDL is very bad for health. It would be expected to see elevated lipid levels as triglycerides are elevated by animals products like meat, dairy or eggs. Yet it is interesting how you focus on the LDL. It is quite possible that the HDL is very low, that might also increase risk of cardiovascular events. I like to think of the HDL and LDL balance. But nevertheless nice article.
did they have their thyroid measured as well? without thyroid hormones and vit A cholesterol can’t be turned into pregnenolone. maybe high cholesterol levels are just a sign of hypothyroidsm and thats why ppl with high cholesterol tend to die earlier. (not a critique or saying I am right, just a genuine question)
Both diets are extreme and it’s an apples and oranges comparison. Carnivore should be keto vegan isn’t. The body uses and produces different levels of many compounds when burning fat and not sugar. Higher blood cholesterol isn’t bad either you have to go far deeper before you can say it might be a problem. Also comparing meat eaters to vegans is very misleading, “meat eaters” still get most of their calories from plant sources, it’s more reasonable to say junk food diets vs vegans. Many protective functions increase and decrease depending on the diet and inflammation generated almost like the body knows what to do with the food you eat funny that… It’s fairly clear you can be healthy on many types of diets no one diet is “the best”
The results are strange because we should see aprox the same numbers for a meat/vegan eaters before and after the switch. Now the question is the what the carnivor person eat (what kind of meat, junk meat or a really quality meat ) before he switch to the vegan diet. Many of us know that a person who eat meat is more predisposed to eat more junk food that a vegan. These two people consume alcohol? they smoke? how much sugar they consume?they did sport? and another variables that we should take in consideration when you do this kind of experiment. We know that are people for which the blood test results have improved after they have switching from a carnivor diet to vegan and other people from a vegan diet to carnivor.
Hey Mic this was a great article, I really enjoyed it. It would have been even more intriguing if say you compared two overweight men with hypertension and diabetes who switch diets for 30 days and then compared things like fat loss, change in BP readings and A1C. However I know that it takes 3 months to see a significant change in A1C
You are still working on the assumption that high cholesterol is bad and LDL needs to be low. The commenter is correct. People with high cholesterol live longer. The idea that LDL is bad is also not true. LDL is responsible for many essential body functions, among these is a healthy immune system. People with low LDL are prone more to infections. They are also prone to suicide and strokes. The problem is not saturated fats, it is sugar and refined carbohydrates and seed oils, of which vegans use these in abundance. Heart disease began to rise at the same time we started using seed oils like cottonseed, corn oil, soy oil, etc. I have been mostly keto/carb for about a year and a half. I have never felt better.
I had never heard of these two dudes doing this test. Thanks so much for putting it up. Even though it is not a formal scientific study, one doesn’t need a formal scientific study for something like this simple test. Just change what you eat for 30 days and see what happens. But, since it is not formal, I’ll just call it “highly suggestive that eating plants as opposed to a high meat diet = better for you”. But since it is informal and you will always have some ass-wipe that will field dress it, I’ll make sure to say “Not all” before I talk about it. Thanks for doing a article on it!
Just saying LDL is meaningless. Is it Pattern A LDL? Is it the large fluffy LDL or small dense LDL? What is remnant cholesterol? You can’t just say HDL and LDL, that is old old school. You need an NMR and to know lipid protein particle size. You are using old info. There are much more meaningful metabolic and lipid tests and you should insist your doctor do an NMR because basic cholesterol, ldl, hdl, trig test are mostly meaningless these days. You need to understand pattern type and particle sizes.
This doesn’t sway me one bit from thinking Carnivore is a better diet, but you do get points for not sounding like a complete douchebag like many vegans I’ve watched do. Congrats on that. I’ll have to look into this more thoroughly. One thing that doesn’t make sense to me though is you made it sound like vegans basically have to supplement or have their foods fortified to get good amounts of B12. How does that make sense for it to be the best diet? Not saying that means Carnivore is ideal, but at least on Carnivore someone doesn’t have to supplement or eat fortified food to get a good amount.
Also seems dude#2 had an overall bigger response to going vegan. For dude#1 he can probably be healthy on either diet. Dude #2 would probably benefit from going vegan. It just goes to show you there is no such thing as a universally best diet for everyone. You vegans and carnivores don’t seem to get that.
So I bet you, if the vegan guy was eating, nothing but whole wheat bread. He’d be worse off than any carnivore. So when you say diet, like I said before you have to be very specific about exactly what they’re eating because there’s a lot of variant within all this. Especially “high meet” I know I know I sound like I’m really pushing for carnivore, but I don’t think it’s that bad. I’ve been extremely low carb for the last two years. Extremely low carb mostly meat. And my blood work is healthier than your vegan example so maybe I am an anomaly I don’t know . I just think vegans are quacks. Don’t get me wrong. Carnivores are probably quacks to 🙂
May I get some advice please? I was an omnivore. I am now doing the trend (carnivore diet). I am doing this for all the benefits that I’ve heard about. Inflammation was a big thing for me. My BP, cholesterol, and everything else is fine. Does going vegan help with inflammation? I have been seeing less inflammation as of now. To be honest it doesn’t seem healthy doing all carnivore. If I did switch are there any inflammatory plant based foods that cause inflammation? Thanks
This is impressive. You can’t say raising IGF-1 is necessarily bad though. Just as high IGF-1 is problematic, so is a low level. There are plants that are very beneficial for health in general, which do not only lower cancer risk, but fight cancer cells, even though raising IGF-1, so people can get the benefits of that as well.
I personally loathe the whole “which is the best diet” debate. There is propaganda on both sides. Nobody recognizes how versatile the human body can be. My personal belief and opinion is Vegan vs Carnivore are both opposite ends of the spectrum. Humans are designed to sustain themselves on either one. We are omnivores. The planet is a huge rock. Not every geographical location is capable of the wide range of vegetables required to be nutritionally healthy. Natives in those areas rely on hunting and a mostly if not completely meat diet where they fuel their bodies off of fat. In other areas where you have a wide array of tasty fruits and vegetables, people fuel their body on sugar and carbs. To me you get similar results. Again, this was a N=2 comparison. I dont know if 30 days is enough time for your body to get fully acclimated to its new process of sustainability. I myself am trying a carnivore diet as an experiment because before, i thought you had to be insane to not eat any plants. Im on day 25 and pretty impressed so far in how i feel. I’ve also heard blood types have a lot to do with what you should prefer dietary wise. Some people are kind of meant to eat meat while others should probably be vegan. Ill have to do some digging on that.
If vit d was down to more sun (hence it went up) why did the meat to vegan go down? Was it not summer for him too? You seem to skip over and dismiss very quickly anything showing meat as being better… Like when you got to B12. Also, the LDL cholesterol issue, there are significantly better articles citing proper sources out there… Check out Dr Paul Mason for example.
Just cut processed food and sugar and eat good quality whole food, whether you are carnivore or vegan. By the way, I am a cardiology/cardiothoracic nurse and cardiologists no longer just look at lipid profile to say that one is at risk of heart disease, they do CAC scoring. Update yourself dude! And we also had a morbidly obese vegan who had to do MRI at the zoo because she won’t fit in a regular MRI machine. So it’s not about being vegan or carnivore, it’s the processed food, junk foods, and sugar. There are a lot of vegan people out there who are morbidly obese. I am a nurse, I’ve seen them all!
I’m a physician with a degree in chemistry and 40 years of clinical practice. I’m convinced that a vegan diet is the ideal diet with the caveat that folks need to supplant vit B12, D3, omega 3 and get proper exercise that is consistent. Most people who fail on any diet are lacking in any of these areas because they are not being scientific in their approach. There are individuals who need additional supplementation (e.g., a specific vitamin, creatine mono hydrate (the latter especially in vegans) for optimal performance. I appreciate all the research you do for the public. I would be happy to collaborate with you.
Fasting is way more important to all those markers than if you’re eating plants or animals. But our society loves the hunger feeling as an excuse to binge on crap every three hours. By the way, during the last 2 years, I’ve been experimenting some low carb / high fat/protein diets, including animal ones, and currently my triglycerides are 34 mg/L and my C Reactive Protein is 0,04 mg/L. Living a fasting-focused lifestyle.
Vegan or carnivore……which is better? The question should be…..what is optimal? I believe the answers lie in what we ate 10,000 years ago before agriculture began and all influence from the food industry did not exist. Humans were hunter/gatherers. The staple food would have been fatty meat. No fruits/veg grows in winter. Find some honey/Apples/berries, ya sure prehistoric humans would eat it but there were no grocery stores providing a constant stream of it. The staple food was what meat was killed. They make a kill and they would live off that for a few days, then go without food for a few days (fasting), then make another kill and the cycle repeats. This is very close to a Keto/carnivore diet that encorporates intermittent fasting. Carbohydrates (plants) were an insignificant part of the diet. So insignificant, that there is no such thing as an “essential carbohydrate ” in the human diet. Carbs are low nutrient and low calorie and lead to malnourishment, suffering (blood sugar swings and having to eat every 3 hours) and slow death after the initial “honey moon” period as is described by many ex-vegans here on YouTube. Fruits and vegetables have been so hybridized/engineered in the last 50 years that there is no way veganism would have been an option back then. This article gives you an idea of what our produce used to look like: youtu.be/EkJnOWGCejQ
Hey, I wanted to say that I’ve read your interview for H-alter (Greetings from Croatia btw). It was nice to see Croatian leftist media keeping up with leftist yt trends. Also as a Croat I can relate to these issues because Croatia is popular tourist destination. Tourists can be problematic (there is a famous accident where Czech tourists went up the mountains in swimsuits and called Croatian rescue service in the end) but I agree that the problem is capitalism. Tourism makes 20% of our national GDP (maybe a few percentages more even) . Environment is getting destroyed by too many visitors (Plitvice lakes, cruisers in Dubrovnik,…), food prices jump sky-high, summer season workers (waiters, maids/cleaners,…) often work 10+ hours a day everyday of the week (even though they have a right to at least 1 day off by law) for an unfairly low wages and landlords kick tenants out hoping to rip off some tourists. Uber was allowed to operate because “tourism” and drivers from other taxi companies attacked Uber drivers (not enough solidarity among the desperate sadly). It’s hard to describe how close this hits to home (I am not affected by all of these issues but am affected by many of them directly or indirectly) and I’m glad someone mentioned these issues in relation to tourism. Great article overall and again, solidarity from Croatia. <3