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📹 What Life Was Really Like for the Average Spartan
Sparta had one of the most respected and fiercest fighting forces of their era. Daily life in ancient Sparta supported the military …
📹 From Boys to Men – The Impressive Spartan Training System
In this video, we piece together everything we know about the Spartans to create their full system of upbringing, focusing on their …
Spartans were famous for how little they would speak in a conversation…their whole goal in life was to serve the army and big conversations were not part of it. In fact, this trait was so unique to Spartans, that today….even after ~2,500 years we say : “Μιλάς Λακωνικά” …You speak as a Lakonian (meaning a Spartan), to emphasize how dense and short someone speaks.
Unlike many other ancient societies, life in Sparta as a woman seems to be really cool. I feel very sorry for the boys though. I wonder how the mothers felt when their sons were abandoned to die! I don’t even wanna think how the babies felt! And can you imagined not being loved as a child? I almost want to cry!
I’m reading and hearing many different things about Spartan societal structure. They were a fierce bunch indeed. Honestly they’re shrouded in mystery. In the rise of classical Greece stories were mostly oral. I do know that not all historians agree that they were entirely as harsh as said. They could’ve been. Perikles was known to be the one I guess, to create historical lit. They did have an honor code which was cool. They upheld women in the highest honor as life givers. Even a conformist war breeding society could’ve been easily corrupted from time to time. I would’ve chosen my Spartan cousins nonetheless.🤘🏼
The Spartan warrior obsession was a result of their fear of a slave revolt. They kept the native Helots as slaves and considered themselves foreign occupiers. Spartans kept the Helots in a constant state of terror to prevent any possibility of rebellion, declaring war on them annually to cull the stronger Helots. Sparta was kind of messed up.
The other classes of the society made up a huge portion of the spartan army, even helots. One of the reasons Sparta never went far with their armies as the helots would just leave or rebel. Helots were also mainly from Messenia a reason to the west of Laconia which was an entire greek population of their own.
So basically, compared to Rome the Spartans were an insular society who viewed themselves as better than anyone else? Meanwhile the guys who actually, y’know, realised you could just train any random joe to be a good soldier with a stake in a massive empire basically ruled the world. As much as I dislike seeing people hero-worship Roman ideals, Spartan hero worship is ten-times worse…
some comments here got it right: sparta as we know it is largely the creation of greek and roman historians and philosophers, most notably plutarch. the spartans did not leave any written records, and viewed speech itself as something that should be used only sparingly. the term “laconian speech” is dervived from laconia, which was a part of sparta. so, when viewed either negatively or positively, we should remember that the sources that we have on them are secondary (written by others) and not primary (written by spartans) including speculations and bias.
The Mongols and Romans both had vastly superior military traditions and won SO MANY more battles than the Spartans, Vikings or Samurai. That said, Spartans were definitely an extremely effective and impressive warrior culture, and their philosophy was great too. Look up “Laconic Phrase”, it is both badass and inspiring.
This website is called “Weird History” but many of the weirdest historical facts about Sparta seemed to have been left out. No mention that men and women lived separately, or that the Spartans performed mandatory pederasty (the act of older men taking on young male lovers). Some pretty important weird facts are missing here.
You left out the part where these boys once they were partnered up with their mentors were basically made to be their lovers as well. Pediastry was normal back in Sparta. As well as the custom that on the wedding night of a man and woman, they would shave the womans head and dress them as a boy. Meanwhile, the woman were strongly believed to also sleep with each other during the festivals (which mostly women attended btw.) Apart from that another interesting fact is that Spartan woman were renowed for their beauty in the whole of greece and especially for a dance in which they kicked up their feet to hit their butts in the rythm of a drumbeat, exposing a lot of their legs in the process, which was deemed pretty extraordinary back then. Just some additions 😬
There are tons of these articles praising how tough the Spartans were, but here’s another question. Who would actually want to LIVE in Sparta? A non-negotiable social hierarchy, no market economy, a birth/early life you wouldn’t likely survive, constant fear of a slave uprising, low living standards, no technological advancement, censorship of new ideas, and ABSOLUTE adherence to the will of the state in both public and private life. THAT would be your reality.
The Spartans didn’t live in a world of comfort nor did they live in a world where they were sheltered from the evils of the world by strong men like we are today. There are many factors leading to their downfall, but in Greece they were seen as invincible, and the people with more perceived intellect were not able to stop them, BUT the Spartans stopped them at will. Ultimately the Spartans and all of Greece fell under rule of the Romans, with the Spartans allowed to have relative autonomy then the pages of history wiped them out. Ultimately, Spartans understood the reality of mankind and did not sugarcoat it as something they wished it would be and they prepared their men for it. They were the warrior elite, there will never be another martial society as prolific as them.
Really good article but I wish you would of talked about the the Class of citizens known as the Periokoi. They were a free non citizen class of Sparta. As the Spartans themselves would pursue no other profession besides warfare they needed the roles of artisan’s and merchants in the cities who were not treated like helots. They also took positions in the spartan military that were considered too risky for True Spartans like skirmishes and weak Calvary. They acted as the barrier between the Spartans and the helots and were friendly with both classes. They were allowed their own laws and customs but they could not vote on spartan foreign or military policy. I believe I even read mention somewhere that if a Perikoi performed well in battle and impress Spartans they could be elevated to the class of being a Spartan but I don’t know how true that one is. Still I feel like it’s important to mention because in your article to someone who might be new to spartan culture they would probably view them as ruthless owners which is true helots were treated very poorly.
i am of spartan stock and all i can say is thank god i wasn’t born back then. but i did have an older brother who was caught up in the ancient culture and made me fight/spar with his older friends to ‘toughen’ me up. by the time i started school the teacher was complaining to my parents that i was hitting everyone and getting into fights all the time. i was a crazy, tempermental kid but thankfully i mellowed out as i got older. geez i remember those days, i would fight at the drop of a hat, by the time i was 8 years old i must have been in 40 fights…..and all i remember are the two i lost.
I read a story about a Spartan child who snuck a fox to eat and he got caught because while hiding it in his clothes the fox woke up since it wasnt properly killed and when it awoke it began biting and eating his stomach. The child who was use to the pain did not move or scream and instead held his silent position until he fell over and eventually died from his injures. Not sure if its true but if it was then its nuts that they would rather be attacked by a wild animal than be caught
Average 34 year old Spartan that was forced to enlist by 12 years of age, ended by age 46 & by 60 was dead if they didn’t survive there struggles, ACTUALLY, BY AGE 8 NOT 7 MY GAWLD, 99 THOUSAND records shown age 8 they were all forced to leave for 76 hours straight, if they could come back alive & FIND THERE WAYS BACK HOME, THAT IS, they would pass the tough test to be accepted into training programs where they would beat them senseless half the time”!…. Basically”!…. How to train was by sea or land they were challenged daily ! They were tested psychologically, mentally & physically daily, life wasn’t allowed to be easy for them, by age 46 if they were a full citizen & at least capable of leading men in there early teens to there late 20’s they were considered a lesser cause & just joined in battles as fierce fighters but never could HAVE THAT HONOR of being called a Citizen” Soliders who claimed one who wasn’t was, was pushed by ONE DROP OF RANK two NO RATIONS shared amongst their fellow warriors / Spartans ! HENCE, THEY TOOK THIS SERIOUSLY, calling somebody a full fledged citizen that wasn’t was intolerable, & the homeless class non citizen’s who were BASICALLY drunk SLAVES, we’re never allowed to be RECOGNIZE or CONSIDERED as a citizen use they could earn it”!… Wish would be few / rare between unless they were actually fully applicable & CONSIDERED honorable to the Spartans themselves, than YOU’D be in seriously good arms & luck for earning that prestigious title to them as Citizen, HOWEVER, DON’T mistake Citizen for SOLDIER, Big Differences there !
I was 10lbs 2oz. at birth, so I might have been held onto. I’m 6’5″ now. But I later developed asthma and turned out to have a gentle, empathetic, poet-like temperament. I wonder if I would’ve been cast out or killed, or bullied into submission, or if I would have fought back and risen above. A warrior-poet, perhaps.
No mention of homosexuality within Spartan soldiers? How disappointing. The soldiers were encouraged to practice homosexuality as a means to become closer to each other and promote a stronger brotherhood. This practice meant that at times of battle, you were protecting those you loved the most. In fact, a marriage between a man and woman was only to procreate and make more soldiers.
We are the Apache, when children were ill or couldn’t keep up they were eliminated. Food was scarce but when we caught it. Several of us were trained in the old way apart from the village because they had become soft and Americans felt we were being harmed. Getting up before the sun whether winter or summer we left with a horse for a few miles hard riding then you held the horse and ran for more miles then the horse because the horse would save your life. If you complained you were gone, if you whined you were punished the water you had stayed in your mouth and if you swallowed it you were punished and no more water for a very long time and only small handful of food that you could grab during training. We ran 100 miles the horse was used for salt, we cut the horses neck just enough to bleed and give us nourishment. No clothes were used except moccasins if you had them and a loin cloth. I was 8 years old. In the American military Special Forces was funny so they sent me to SOG
Albanian Language Is Older Than Time 🇦🇱 Proof —> Pelasgians = Prej Ylli Gjindtë = People From The Star Illyria = Yll Rri = Star Dwellers Albania = Yll Banorë = Banorët E Yllit / Banorët Prej Yllit = The Dwellers Of The Star / The Dwellers From The Star Etruscans = Tosks = Tosk Albanians Epirus = I Epërm = Upper Land Bardylis = Bardhë Ylli = White Star Gentius = Gjindtë = People Teuta = Të Ujit = Of The Waters Agron = Ag, Agon, Agoj, Agim = Dawn Alexander The Great = Ai Le Si Ëndërr = He Was Born Like A Dream Myrtale = Mirë Ti Le = You Were Born Well Olympias = Ylli Mbi = The Star Above / The Star In The Sky Polyxena = Prej Ylli Si Hëna = From The Star Like The Moon Olympus = Ylli Mbi = The Star Above / The Star In The Sky Aphrodite = Afër Dita = Near Day / Dawn Dorians = Të Dorës = Strong, Hardworking People Peloponnese = Prej Ylli, Prej Hëne = From The Star, From The Moon Graeculus = Gratë E Yllit = Women Of The Star / Women From The Star Hera = Era = Wind Apollo = Ai Prej Yllit = He Is From The Star Rhea = Re = Cloud Zeus = Zë / Zot = Voice / God Pegasus = Prej Nga Zeusi = Comes From Zeus Ares = Ai Rrihet = He Fights Selene = Si Yll Hëne / Si Ylli I Hënës = Like The Moon’s Star Demeter = Dimër = Winter Hestia = Vjeshta = Autumn Persephone = E Para Prej Hëne = The First From The Moon Triton = Dritë = Light Thetis = Deti = Sea Cronus = Krua / Krijoj = Fountain / Create Amalthea = Ajo Mal Dhia = She Is A Goat From The Mountains Adamanthea = Atë E Mban Dhia = The Goat Nurses Him Cleopatra = Ka Le E Para / Nga Ylli Pati Rënë Ose Nga Ylli Pati Ardhur = The First To Be Born / She Has Fallen From The Star Or From The Star She Had Come The Masculine Version Of Cleopatra’s Name: Cleopater = Nga Ylli Pati Ardhur = He Had Come From The Star Archimedes = Ar Ki Mendjen = Golden Minded Shall You Be Hippocrates = Hapi Krahët = Spread Your Wings Kratos = Krahët Ose Ke Ra Ti = Arms / Wings Or You Have Fallen Socrates = Se Ke Rënë Ti = You Have Fallen Democrates = Dem Me Krahë / Dem Ke Rënë Ti = Bull With Wings / You Have Fallen Like A Bull Prometheus = Pari Mbi Dhe = The First Over The Earth Herodotus = Era E Ditës = Day’s Wind Aristotle = Ari Do Të Lind = Gold Shall He Born Antisthenes = Ngjan Ti Si Hëna = You Resemble The Moon Elena = Ylli Dhe Hëna = The Star And The Moon Parthenon = Të Parët Tanë = Our Ancestors Artemis = Ardhësit E Mi = My Predecessors Paris = I Pari = The First Pericles = I Pari Ka Lindur = He Was Born The First Asclepius = Ai Ka Le Prej Ujit = He Was Born From The Water Achilles = Ai Nga Ylli = He Is From The Star Amazon = Jam E Zonja = I Am A Strong Woman Acropolis = Ai Ka Rënë Prej Yllit = It Has Fallen From The Star Heracles / Hercules = Erdhi Nga Ylli = He Came From The Star Troy = Trojë = Place or Land Of Origin Trojë = Të Ra / Ka Ra = It Has Fallen (From The Star) Pallas = Prej Ylli = From The Star Bia = Bija = Daughter Zelus = Zëri I Yllit = The Voice Of The Star Medusa = Me Hardhuca = With Lizards Pandora = Pa Dorën = She Saw Her Fate In Her Hand Odysseus = Udhësi = The Guider Odessa = E Dashur = Beloved Ajax = Gjak = Blood Athena = A Ti Hëna = You Are The Moon Cassandra = Ka Sa Ëndrra = Many Dreams Penelope = Prej Hëne, Prej Yllit = From The Moon, From The Star Hermes / Hermopolis = Erdhëm Prej Yllit = We Came From The Star Mercury = Mbi Erë Ky Rri = Above The Wind He Stays Priam = Prijës / Pari Jam = Descendant / I Am The First Oracle = Ai Ra Nga Ylli = It Has Fallen From The Star Alexander The Great Named Most Mountains In Asia: Tirich Mir = Ti Të Rrish Mirë = You Should Stay Well Rakaposhi = Ka Rënë Poshtë = It Fell Downwards Torabora = Tërë Borë = Full Of Snow Stok Kangri = Sa Tokë Ka Ngrirë = So Much Land Is Frozen Bubli Motin = Bubullinë Moti = Thunder Weather Ka Ra Buura = Ka Rënë Bora = Snow Has Fallen Diran = Dy Ranë / Duron = Two Fell / Withstand Ancient Egyptians Spoke Albanian 🇦🇱 Proof —> Pyramid = Pirg Mbi Dhe = Stack Over The Ground Cleopatra = Ka Le E Para / Nga Ylli Pati Rënë Ose Nga Ylli Pati Ardhur = The First To Be Born / She Has Fallen From The Star Or From The Star She Had Come The Masculine Version Of Cleopatra’s Name: Cleopater = Nga Ylli Pati Ardhur = He Had Come From The Star Nefertari Meritmut = Afër Te Ari Më Rrite Mua Ti = Close To Gold You Raised Me Nefertiti = Afërdita = Aphrodite / Near Day Pharaoh = Pari Ai Është / Prej Ari Ai Është = He Is The First / He Is Made Of Gold Sphinx = Sa Përngjajnë = How Similar They Look Alike Hapi = Ha Pi = Eat Drink (Hapi Is The God Of Nile) Iteru = I Tërë Ujë = All Water Nile = Një Yll = A Star Hebrew Words And Names Transcripted In Albanian 🇦🇱 Proof —> Israel = Është Ra Ylli = The Star Has Fallen Raphael / Rafael = Ra Prej Yllit = He Fell From The Star Rachel = Ra Nga Ylli = She Fell From The Star Miriam = Mirë Jam = I Am Well Joel = Je Yll = You Are A Star Ariel = Atje Rri Ylli Ose Ar Ylli = The Star Stays There Or Golden Star Gabriel = Ka Brirë Ylli = The Star Has Horns Sarah = Se Ra = It Fell Hanna = Hëna = Moon Suzana = Sy Zana = Eyes Like A Fairy / Fairy-Eyed Deborah = Dëbora = Snow Sumerians, Mayans And Other Civilizations Spoke Albanian 🇦🇱 Proof —> Sumer = Shumë Herët = Way Early Kengir = Nga Hëna Ka Hyrë = He Has Entered The Moon Anu = Hëna = Moon Ilu = Ylli = Star En = Hënë = Moon Enlil = Hëna dhe Ylli = The Moon and The Star Enki = Hënë Ky Ose Nga Hëna = He Is The Moon Or From The Moon Etana = E Ti Hëna = You Are The Moon Babylon = Bubullon = Thunder Scandinavia = S’kanë Ditur Nga Vijnë = They Did Not Know Where They Came From Viking = Vend I Ngrirë = Frozen Place Odin = Ai I Di = He Knows / Knowledge Loki = Luan Ky = He Cheats / He Tricks Dragon = Vra Goja = It Emits Flame From Its Mouth Vampire = Dhëmb Pirës = Teeth Drinker Mammoth = Më I Madhi = The Largest Penguin = Pinë Nga Uji = They Drink From The Water Hippopotamus = Hipën Ti Mbi Ujë = You Stay In The Water Maya / Mayapan = Mbi Ajër Prej Hëne = Above The Air From The Moon Cuanhtemallan = Ky Erdhi Te, Mbi Yllin e Hënës = He Came To, Above The Moon’s Star Tikal = Ti Nga Ylli = You Are From The Star Baal = Bëhet Yll = Becomes A Star Histori = Ish Te Ora = Before The Time / Long Time Ago Tokjo = Toka Jonë = Our Land Cuisine = Ku I Zien = Where You Cook Them Siren = Se I Rren = She Tricks Them Muse = Me Zë = With Voice Social = Shoqëri = Friendship Spartans Were Albanians 🇦🇱 Proof —> Sparta = Shpatë = Sword Lycurgus = Ligji = Law Theopompus = Dheu I Popullit = Nation Land Polydorus = Foli I Dorës = Speaks Proficiency Doryssus = I Dorës = Strong, Hardworking Person Demaratus = Si Dem Ai Rrihet = He Fights Like A Bull Klenymos = Ka Le Ndihmues = Born A Helper Cleombrotus = Ka Le Mbrojtje = Born A Shild / Born Protective Kleodaios = Ka Le I Dijes = Born All Knowing Alcamenes = Yll Ka Mendjen = His Mind Is A Star Eurykrates = E T’u Rritshin Krahët = May You Grow Big Shoulders Eurypon = E U Rritsh Prej Hëne = May You Grow From The Moon To Here Eurysthenes = E U Rritsh Sa Te Hëna = May You Grow To The Moon Eurydamas = E U Rritsh Demi = May The Bull Grow Pausanias = Pasuri = Wealth Hippocratidas = Hapi Krahët = Spread Your Wings Hippomedon = Hap Mendjen = Think Wise Ariston = Arritur = Reached (Success) Labotas = Lindur Prej Botës = Born From Earth Anaxandridas = I Ngjan Dritës = Resembles The Light Anaxilas = I Ngjan Yjeve = Resembles The Stars Anaxander = I Ngjan Ëndrrës = Resembles A Dream Anaxidamus = I Ngjan Demit = Resembles A Bull Zeuxidamus = Zërin Si Demi = The Voice Like A Bull Arehidamus = Ai Rrihet Si Demi = He Fights Like A Bull Menares = Mendo = Think Wise Echestratus = Udhës Drejtë = The Right Way Nicomedes = Një Komb = One Nation Ancient Romans Were Albanians 🇦🇱 Proof —> Italy / Víteliú = Vijnë Te Ylli / Vijnë Prej Yllit = They Come From The Star Fortuna = Fat Te Unë Ose Fati Ynë = Luck To Me Or Our Luck Romulus = Rroj Mbi Yll = I Live Above The Star Calabria = Kala Me Brirë = Castle With Horns Mafia = Mbaje Fjalën = Keep Your Word In Latin, Star is called Stella and Stella comes from Albanian Yll = Star Luna in Latin means Moon and Luna reads in Albanian: Luan Ana = The Side Moves (Moon Phases) Primavera = Pranvera = Spring Diana = Dija E Hënës / Zana / Zë Hëna = The Knowledge Of The Moon / Fairy / Voice Like The Moon Vesta = Vjeshta = Autumn Caelestis = Ky Yll Është = He Is A Star Mars = Me Ar Ose Mbarësi = With Gold Or Luckiness Mercury = Mbi Erë Ky Rri = Above The Wind He Stays Faunus / Fauna = Prej Hëne = From The Moon Augustus = Ag, Agon, Agoj, Agim = Dawn Pompeii = Po Më Pëlqen = I Like It Pescara = Peshk = Fish Sicily = Si Ylli = Like The Star Siculi = Si Ylli = Like The Star Sicani = Si Hëna = Like The Moon Elymians = Ylli Mbi Hënë = The Star Above The Moon Julius Caesar = Je Ylli = You Are The Star, Caesar = Që Është Ar = Which Is Gold
Is Plato’s ‘Protagoras and Meno’ it is claimed that all spartan men are philosophers and they all study it in private but in public they act as if they don’t. If you think about it, they need to be highly disciplined and that can only come from respecting authority and understanding what’s right and wrong and that comes from philosophising and an education.
I’m skeptical that the helots were killed or abused as readily as is claimed. These stories come from Spartas enemies who had reason to disparage the Spartans for their cruelty. In fact the Athenians were much more cruel to their slaves than the Spartans. The Helots provided food for the Spartans and would be important when the Spartans were away at war. It would have made no sense for the Spartans to abuse the helots as randomly as is usually claimed and then expect them to provide a stable food supply when the army left and no one was their to keep discipline. The Spartans probably rewarded loyal slaves as would be expected for a master who relied on them to supervise the farms when they were away. Athenians on the other hand had no use for their slaves if they couldnt be ransomed for money. They were generally thrown into silver mines never to see the sun again in their all too short lives where they were barely fed and subject to extreme violence to keep them working in the mines. It was a lot worse to be a slave in Athens than Sparta.
Is it just me or does life in Sparta kinda sound awesome well as long as your a healthy baby, because when you think about it your trained from a young age to fight and survive, there aren’t really any rules besides don’t get caught and when you marry your going to most likely marry a physically fit and strong wife that’s also in the best possible shape they can be in your chances of dying in war are significantly lowered because you have the strongest military in Greece, and on top of all of that there are SPORTS competitions where WOMEN are NAKED how is that not paradise
The Spartans where not concerned about philosophy or arts? Hmmmmm sure weird history website, whatever you say. I live in modern day Sparta and we have an ancient theater of more than 20.000 capacity 2 minutes away from my house. Also have you ever heard of Τυρταίος? A very fanous Spartan poet that was revered in ancient Greece? Guess not. Do some more research before editing articles so people can actually take you seriously. Also Sparta was the only place in ancient Greece and the first in the world where all its citizens could read and write. I rest my case.
Their society has to be mostly propaganda, based on how they lived, in such a militaristic child abuse type of society, they would they would have created thousands of psychopaths and sociopaths citizens, the majority of kids and war veterans would be sufferings form many forms of PTSD, that type of society will mostly destroy themselves and that’s exactly what happen to Sparta, I would have love to known their suicide rate among children and veterans, it must have been very high.
it’s a simple concept basic logic if life is not free why the hell would death be any cheaper it’s not. So the question one may wonder is the spiritual cost to one’s own soul and spirit for having lived and died to the lowest standards of quality for so many years now global pollution has diminished the quality of life to the point where today’s people are living, dying and yielding the worst spiritual kickback that has ever been manifested since the beginning of life only getting worse. The polar opposite extreme to that is today’s people should be living and dying to the highest standards of quality which would make each and every moment physically, mentally, financially and spiritually beneficial. S.R.F.
Spartan boys were encouraged to steal and were punished if they were caught, because they were caught after being punished for stealing food because they were punished for stealing food. WHO WROTE THIS SCRIPT? Stop repeating the same things 20 times in a row. I feel like I’m having a stroke listening to this.
ITS NOT A-GOJE… ITS A-GOGE-A. If you are going to do a informational article, be factual and correct. SPARTAN women were also trained in combat. This is common knowledge found in any text relating to the life of the Spartans. Peroci and Helots were NOT SPARTANS. They were people conquered or accepted foreigners living within Sparta. Very poor article.
spartan boys in agoge: never receiving rations that kept them reasonable fed, always hungry, had to steal extra food and were beaten in case of getting caught my son, after I prepared meal (I’m chef): no I don’t like that. I want something different. I want sweet stuff! me: boi, let me tell you a story from long time ago, when kids had to fight others for their meals, and were punished when getting caught stealing…
Spartans were champions of Pangration (Greek Ancient Martial Art with NO RULES AT ALL) so yes, they could destroy anyone nowadays in a ring or at the streets with ease, so stop talking bullshits, these guys had 30kg of steel (yeah steel!) on them and they could hack n slash for hours and then run 50km to home…no human can do this now. Few years ago some US navy seals tried to replicate the battle of Marathon without the fight, with the replica Spartan gear equiped, all they had to do is to cover a small distance running and then back…the failed in every level, after 20 minutes of running under the hot sun and some minor pangration fights they were KO all of them.
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Something truly disturbing about creating a army of killers. Nothing wrong about being strong, fit and being able to take care of yourself and gender equality (relatively) While I like the idea of discipline and moderation (like one glass of wine), encouraging theft to survive?? That has so many ramifications and that’s probably why their society did not last.
could i live the life of a spartan? helll no i do think we should normalize having women dance and wrestle naked. nothing wrong with celebrating the woman. we also neglect alot of animals and our practices of modern day ajimal husbandry is barbaric asf. we might as well bring back the selective breeding and raising of boys
This is so strange. A place that championed hyper masculinity but at the same time allowed their women to have a place in society is unheard of unless you hear about Sparta. You didn’t say anything about how men got their rocks off while they waited to the age of 30 to be married. They weren’t just warriors, they were sexually abused warriors. No wonder they were ferocious and probably angry. I wonder how they came about this societal ideals.
They were also know as the Boy Lovers. During that training those boys were raped. it was put in their art as well.. Edit: as I wrote this 6:25 showed the exact art i spoke of as I type it. That is clearly a very young Boy and A Man. Notice the Height and the Facial Hair to indicate the Youth from an Adult. That is indeed not a depiction of a woman.
Feet strengthening is only something we’ve found out recently due to having running shoes destroying the muscles in our feet giving us back and hip pain. This man figured that out centuries ago, and today some people still think barefoot strength is a quack science. He also figured out dancing for fighting. Some of the best strikers we have in the world today, Lomachenko and Adesanya both grew up doing traditional and hip-hop dancing respectively. This man figured out that dancing is great for fighting and body co-ordination years ago. This man also figured out being lean over being too muscular for fighting/war is more ideal. This is a concept that some people still struggle with today, thinking that the big bodybuilder is going to win an MMA fight to the more technical smaller guy. This man figured out fasting (maybe it was already commonplace in those days idk) but at least implemented it for reasons. Which is impressive compared to modern day society with their fast food all in your face. This man figured out the Wim Hof method centuries before Wim Hof was born. This man expertly implemented competition and brotherhood which has been known to raise testosterone basically making the men even stronger. He even implemented no-nut (until marriage) lmao. Thanks OP what an impressive amount of research you’ve done and thanks for introducing me to this man.
Everyone focusing on physical snd military aspects.. it was more then that. It was about humility, mental strength, being happy and grateful in hard times, learning to find away, building drive for success, respect, earning what they have, being apart of a larger picture. Etc etc. Building strong character, minds and beliefs. That makes a successful society.
They was correct in some ways but pushing too hard can create a weakness as well. To be the best you got to have a healthy balance. Also not only is learning a great thing however learning from as many as you can creates a better warrior. Also equally important to learn from your enemies. Which they kind of did. The only reason they failed was because of their refusal to change some things. Their equipment was great yet got outdated. They had everything but some key factors. That’s why they ultimately was ended.
I have read that the agoge essentially had the seed of it’s own failure built in. It required the men to provide their own arms and armour which was expensive. When they couldn’t do it they lost their voting rights and dropped out of the system. As this happened more and more, wealth moving to the top, the pool of eligible warriors dropped and their army decreased. I may have misremembered the exact details but that’s the gist.
In the heart of the hallowed land of ancient Greece, there dwelt a band of warriors, chiseled from the very stones of Mount Taygetus. These were the Spartans, whose souls were forged in the crucible of war and discipline, tempered with the heat of unwavering loyalty and devotion to their cause. Their training was not a mere regimen, but a relentless storm, a tempest that battered their bodies, testing their mettle, forging their spirits into unbreakable shards of diamond. Each grueling session was a crucible, a trial by fire where the weak were consumed, and the strong emerged, reborn in the searing flames of adversity. Each Spartan youth was a budding seed in the arid soil, nurtured by the iron hand of discipline and watered by the sweat and blood of their brethren. Their sinews and bones were fibers of unbreakable steel, woven together in the loom of relentless training. The Spartan warriors were not soldiers, but the embodiment of the primal forces of nature. They were the thunder that roared across the heavens, the lightning that shattered the night, the hurricane that swept across the land, leaving nothing but awe and reverence in its wake. They were the embodiment of the warrior spirit, a force as ancient and as timeless as the cosmos itself. The battleground was their canvas, and their spears and swords were the brushes with which they painted their gruesome masterpieces. They wove a tapestry of war, a symphony of clashing steel and shattering shields, punctuated by the staccato rhythm of their battle cries.
If you think about it the last social norm makes sense. Imagine going to battle and losing alot of men to people who you out number just for them to rather die then retreat. That would strike fear in the heart of anyone. I bet a good amount of battles won by spartans were through fear and intimidation.
This training exposes both the good parts and the bad parts of an ancient world society. On the one hand, you had great people like lycurgus spearheading innovations out of nowhere. Parts of this training like the team fights and focus on the discipline of teenagers are impeccable too, they would definitely help mould said hormonal teenagers into ready and competent adults, both physically and psychologically ready to carry the burdens of life. On the other hand you have the ancient ignorance about things such as nutrition and its effects, or abuse towards children. Spartan boys growth was stunted by this constant malnutrition, and virtually all spartan boys grew up traumatised from physical and emotional abuse in a society which did not recognise these concepts. Either way, we can learn from it and mimic or avoid it
Im 3 years into a military career and I think it’s safe to say we have adopted some principles of ancient military tradition into our modern system, while yes the training makes strong and unmovable, I hated every second of it lol. I just never got around to being treated like an animal, I followed in line like the rest but in the back of my mind I always knew who I was. Maybe I’ll miss in in retrospect but I doubt it at 28.
I especially appreciate that they had the women in the program as well. I think today as a society we have a lot to learn from our ancestors. This point especially. In the fact that although women are biologically less capable than men physically, they still had them perform some basic training routinely which would actually help them defend themselves and their children against aggressors, while also maintaining their self respect and status as a wife and carer. A society built on this system would indeed be a harsh educational environment, but the people would be incredibly capable. Imagine if everyone in the world woke up and each devoted to become the best version of themselves. The world would be incredibly better off. And you are a product of your environment. A healthy and happy world breeds healthy, happy and strong people.
I feel like aspects of the Lygurgius system is still in play with our modern western societies. However it would be neat to have a volunteer group to test this practice in full. Well maybe it would be considered unethical, but still it’d be interesting. I also wonder what would happen if I incorporate this system, at least partly into my own life. Though I’d imagine I’d have to cut myself off from the vices that make up my daily life, heck that might be a good thing actually.
Noice 🤙 Cosimo said: If anyone (like the Spartan) should raise his children on a farm, make them sleep in the open, go with head and feet bare, bathe in cold water in order to harden them to endure vicissitudes, so that they then might love life less and fear death less, he would be praised by few and followed by none. So that dismayed at these ways of living, he presently leaves the ways of the ancients, and in imitating antiquity, does only that which he can with little wonderment. -Machiavelli, Niccolo The Art of War Book I
I believe that it’s a ridiculous system, ludicrous. as an ex-national team swimmer, I admire the discipline and being able to endure hardship, and strive for it. but this system is one of the many reasons spartans became a pity society when the Romans came, reduced to a little town of old folks living the same way of life for hundreds of years They made discipline and being respectful into institutionalized brutality and bullying. no wonder they are soo much recalled for being “wow”, but in reality, their civilization was at best “MEH”
I encourage the viewers here to research what Spartan society (what did it mean to be a citizen?) was founded on and what its immense, albeit relatively short-lived, success really rested upon. Yes, its warriors were impeccably hard, but what kind of resources were required to build and support a military of such a caliber? It is a major point of discussion, relevant even in a article about training of citizen boys. Here’s a start to this scholastic journey: Crypteia
And yet they lost wars like… A LOT against “softer” societies. They lost against the macedonians, against the thebans, against the athenians, against the romans and acheans of the anti-spartan coailition in the laconian war… Not sure that, appealing as it may be, this hyper rigid – emotionless training/education does actually mean stronger societys. Or sronger individuals on the long run.
In theory and practice it’s worked. Developed one of the most deadly warriors. I feel it was more of the man power that they lacked. Or their society as in only citizens can fight, lack of man power and resources to keep that level of training/life. Say if the Roman’s did this, with that man power and resources, now that would be extremely interesting
You said at the beginning that you’d say how effective the system was, but at the end you leave it to us to define that for you. Bit of a let down, even if it did get me to comment and contribute to your algorithm performance. I would enjoy seeing a comparison with an army that is more decentralized and self-disciplined through positive reinforcement (if such a thing exists).
Personally I wish I was trained like that today. I lack a big amount of discipline and I’m mostly a coward. I am trying to better myself but I’m already a young adult (in my early 20s). If I had started out with that training I would already be content in life and could focus on securing my future instead of worrying if I’m enough or if my boss is going to fire me.
The only thing I disagree with is the part where spending too much time with family will lessen the motivation the competitive spirit because you as a man are to provide,protect,and make ends meet . I think spending time with family amplifies the competitive spirit because your not only doing this for you as a man but for your whole family, I say this because once you find your wife and your child or children at your weakest point family will motivate you to go above and beyond
I think Lycurgus is a genius. He created a training regime that taught kids respect and though tough. It was like National Service as we used to have here in the UK. I wish I could bring him to our time, and him sort out my country. There’d be no delinquent kids ruining riot and disrespecting adults then.
Meanwhile my school was a joke, no one took anything seriously, I dropped out of high school and it was probably for the best because now I have a high paying job as a programmer. Life is what you make of it, but I sure wish I was pushed like this in my youth. Who knows what I could have achieved. Or our society could have achieved. Instead half of my country thinks men can get pregnant. Sigh.
Sparta was a slave society. Approximately 90% of the population of the area under Sparta’s control were helots, serfs descended from the population conquered by Sparta in the eighth century. In the Sparta city-state, all slaves were owned by the state. They were viewed as enemies and forced to wear humiliating clothes to distinguish them from Spartan citzens. Thucydides stresses that “most Spartan institutions have always been designed with a view to security against the Helots”. Military training was essential to fight the many slave revolts and keep the 90% majority of the population suppressed.
I think some of these methods should be adopted into our society. Of course not quite to this extent, but close to. If i were in charge of the USA, no child would be obese or mentally, physically weak. They’d be taught that honor and respect is above all. They’d also each be taught the inner workings of our democracy and government. So each student could effectively govern a people. That is the ideal democracy.
It seemed that in accurate history Spartans were not that great at all, Athens people were way better military. Spartans even had events in which they litteraly cowardly ran from battle, lied and took the credit for other people’s efforts All this Spartan = Big badass man, is all hollywood folks, mostly 300 fault😂, as accurate as a real ninja is to Naruto 😂
I answered and said, “If I have found favor in thy sight, O Lord, show this also to thy servant: whether after death, as soon as every one of us yields up his soul, we shall be kept in rest until those times come when thou wilt renew the creation, or whether we shall be tormented at once?” 76 He answered me and said, “I will show you that also, but do not be associated with those who have shown scorn, nor number yourself among those who are tormented. 77 For you have a treasure of works laid up with the Most High; but it will not be shown to you until the last times. 78 Now, concerning death, the teaching is: When the decisive decree has gone forth from the Most High that a man shall die, as the spirit leaves the body to return again to him who gave it, first of all it adores the glory of the Most High. 79 And if it is one of those who have shown scorn and have not kept the way of the Most High, and who have despised his law, and who have hated those who fear the Most High — 80 such spirits shall not enter into habitations, but shall immediately wander about in torments, ever grieving and sad, in seven ways. 81 The first way, because they have scorned the law of the Most High. 82 The second way, because they cannot now make a good repentance that they may live. 83 The third way, they shall see the reward laid up for those who have trusted the covenants of the Most High. 84 The fourth way, they shall consider the torment laid up for themselves in the last days. 85 The fifth way, they shall see how the habitations of the others are guarded by angels in profound quiet.
These methods made efficient war machines. However can you imagine the psychological damage? Not being allowed to speak to any one as a child would be tough. The fact the everyone is allowed to beat you would make you feel very unsafe all the time. They walked around with their eyes on the ground. They were afraid of adults, it wasn’t respect. They weren’t allowed to marry until they became the perfect machine.
Dude imagine in the Invincible universe. If a viltrumite came to Earth around this time and went to Sparta, and saw the warrior/soldier mindset that the society holds as a whole and strictly follows. I wonder how the viltrumite would react? Probably would be a bit impressed, and view the humans as “not so pathetic” or “not so lowly life forms”. OR they could think, “Look what they need to do to mimic a fraction of a fraction of my power”
Sparta relied so much on slavery in their basic economy that ended in a ridiculous proportion of slaves . This led to a constant fear of revolt within their domains.Which ultimately forced Spartans to militarize all their citizens and sacrifice their own freedom in favor of the State: private property was pretty much non-existent till you turn 40-50 (considering the life span in Ancient Greece you can imagine), same went with marriage (with your wife could be borrowed by the State to be impregnated by some young studs), even your kids at the age of 7 already belonged to the State to start their Agoge. The whole model was the closest to a communist system. It was highly effective during many centuries but eventually got obsolete because in comparison with their “bohemian” less disciplined neighbors, they lacked the innovation that made possible arts and philosophy, architecture and technology, in other words democracy.
I like how to most upvoted comment tends to try to defend a totalitarian form of govern which focus on military power and only, with the most inhumane excuses, and while also excusing war ideals. Not saying that the overall greeks and civilizations should have been weak or losers in wars. But that, right now, in our time, in our world, this kind of society only represents ideals of war-idealizations and selvagery times although they were organized in military perspective (only). “But I think having a physically fit, active population who spend time outdoors can only be a net positive.” So, slowly people are going to accept this and very subtle think that indoors people could be the very reason they are the ones to blame the chaos that (always) exists(-ed) The Spartan culture should be an example for warfare and how people could be conditioned to be become weaponry. One could say “But they went through a very good life with very nice health standards” No politics or anyone perspective of a ‘good life’ should be a rule towards anyone else of how a life should be. We COULD (or perhaps, there should be) some code or agreement towards social living. But wait, we may have it indeed: it is called constitution.
Is it positive or negative? Shit well look at the history, they were one of the strongest and with only 300 Spartans they stood their ground for a good while. Their rigorous training made them strong mentally and physically, the strongest survive and that’s what you need to keep a civilization strong and going. Weak men create hard times, hard times create strong men, strong men create good times, and good times create weak men. Look at today, Weak mean create hard times, hard times create weaker men, weaker men create harder times which than lead to a fallen society or a society dictated by corruption. We need these trainings back
Those were just fucking brutal with all, I am believer that, you know, the brain and critical thining are a thing and, i’m a bit rebelious, and these kinds of things just don’t add up for me, as these guys were teached to basically obey. I do aprove, and like the idea of encouraging even children to phyisical activity and combat though.
i think his goal was to make a unstopabile army of strong deseplined battle ready men that were strong and in ther best preformance and bacicly make warmachines witch he did he made wariors that lisent to him and respected everyone even tho they were capebile of beating a normal nowadays human with ez thats pretty wild to me and cool
According to Hippocrates, who admired the Spartan educational system, the children learned to steal, rape and become liars as a lesson to understand why it was wrong to do it. Teaching a human from a young age the good and bad things in life, gives them a strong and balanced basis of character to form in their teenage and adult lives as the ideal citizen. Knowing how and why to steal made them appreciate and protect themselves, telling lies made them understand and appreciate honesty and truth and rape made them understand the act of love from the act of violence. Those men will later vote for a politician and participate in political debates, so they will make much more thoughtful decisions because they know the thief and the liar from a mile away.
Technically the sporting system can be replicated today but the thing is you would have to get people together that are willing to make it a physical positive healthy place for everybody to learn and grow I think the most important thing that would be important about this system today it would have to be like a camp where you still provide food to three groups children teams and adults understandably the teens and adults can help out a lot to make sure the children’s teen order and this teaches leadership roles how to take charge and other stuff like that plus you know learning how to cook for yourself as well as a teenager when you can volunteer in a camping area I understand like okay yeah it’s not exactly hunting and gathering but you can maybe do that Friday Saturday and Sunday and start over Monday through Thursday where the adults and teens are there to help keep up with you know the food process of the cafeteria routine basically stuff like that I could go on but I’m going to walk listening to this and I just kind of felt like yeah I think this could still be replicated today
In INDIA, this system still exists. In Class 11th and 12th we are sent to hostels (Boarding schools) in cities from towns And we leave our family behind and go into rigorous memory training to crack exams But in our college we don’t have a mentor And with minor comforts and luxuries We end up falling behind And we stay Unemployed at our parents house Then we are brutally dishonoured (this dishonorment leads to Suicidal tendencies and Criminal thoughts) And we think about Doing whatever job we get (Even if we have to drink alcohol, take pills, or whatever to deal with it becoz we are not mentally prepared to accept those jobs) I have lived The last ten years of my life (2013-2023) this way and it’s really brutal. I didn’t go out of my house (except very very few times for haircut that too at night around 9PM) for the past four years. It sucks bro. I regret that the spartan system was not present in my college and becoz of that I got distracted into various different things becoz of the Internet and faucked up my life.
First you have to study about Indus Valley Civilization and Hinduism! Which was older than Greek culture. Even the modern epic of Hinduism ‘Mahabharat’ was wrote more than 5000 BC! Where The characters like Arjun, Karna, Bheem, Bhishma was invincible or in modern word we can say that ultra giga chads
While this is definitely interesting, even fascinating, when seen from a distance, I think this article gets a bit tasteless in its naked adoration. The article says: what would happen if you formed a society like this now? And answers: “In theory, this would produce a perfect society”. Making it sound like the spartan way would produce an ideal society – even in a modern perspective! – is bizarre unless you accept a hardcore fascist ideology. Imagine the lifelong suffering and bullying this system would mean for any individual nearsighted, lame or with other functional variations. Imagine all the geniuses who would never make it through adolescence? Imagine being in love in this society. Imagine living with a total lack of human liberties that is worse than in Nazi Germany. Also, it should be noted that this system was disastrous for the Spartan demographic and crashed the economy. And to top it off, it didn’t even make them that much better at war! Now, I totally understand if this article is only about the cool concept or the myth of the Spartan way, that’s all good and I love that kind of content myself. But the text of the article, at several times, sounds as if it means that the idea of the Spartan agoge was actually right, that it worked as intended and that it would produce an ideal society today. That is a problem. (But thanks for making it anyway!)
You forgot to mention that homosexuality was part of the culture in ancient Greece and was especially promoted in the army. The reason was simple, as explained by Plato: when two young men are “lovers” (erastis/eromenos), they would fight with more courage and bravery to protect their beloved partner. And just to anticipate those who will react by saying “No, erastis/eromenos had a different meaning,” the answer is NO, SORRY GUYS! The terms erastis/eromenos had a purely homosexual meaning. Sources from ancient scripts are available for those who are curious.
Sparta failed at the end of the day . All that discipline didn’t save them from their lack of diplomacy, operational logistics and tactics . Not to mention they were just far too exclusive . Hence why Rome did better than Sparta or any Greek city state could’ve ever dreamed . The Roman’s were inclusive of other cultures and integrated them into their own society . Sparta couldn’t have ever dreamed of having an empire like the Romans did . Hell they can’t even compare to the Macedonians with Alexander the Great
Their downfall was their unwillingness to evolve their methods on the battlefield. The phalanx was revolutionary and it made them practically invincible…until their enemies realized they were a one trick pony and found a way to defeat it. Yes, other factors lead to their downfall but their inability to adapt to changing circumstances would have guaranteed their destruction all on its own. They were really on to something though and wish they’d endured.
These days in military, soldiers become men. Even girls become women, it’s tuff to work hard in the army. In Russia, soldiers out there in war against Ukraine. Back then, BC, soldiers warn suit of armor, with helmets and a cape, the cape was called something. Today, soldiers wear helmets and bulletproof vests, even hardware boots.
I’m fascinated by the history of the Spartans but god damn is super cringey seeing everyone get the wrong idea from them. In the end Spartans were authoritarian slave owners who only trained as hard as they did not because they wanted to improve themselves but because they were scared of a slave uprising, they’d force children into being child soldiers and would brutally beat them and kill them over the dumbest things, they’d let children fight each other to the death for their amusement, they waged war at nearly every nation they came across that they started to run thin on troops and civilians and over time their land was absorbed by neighboring nations. Sparta was seen as a laughingstock in their time since they were proof that holding on to tradition, not adapting or progressing and making tradition your whole personality was not ideal in the long run, that’s literally the entire lesson of Sparta
So basically everyone was conscripted in the military at 7. Nothing special. I think there are some ideas here we could implement in our modern schooling system, but their civilisation isn’t the utopia movies like the 300 show. They didn’t have much cultural or knowledge and the other greek cities, while worse at war, have been thousands of times more influential.
Top article very well made and explained very interesting thank you for that. Personally I’ve always been attracted by the Spartan world and I think they were x100 more in advance than today society, from a social point of view as well as mental and physical health and ethic maybe but I don’t know for sure, in a way it sounds a bit like the old communist way of thinking, and well for my personal opinion it’s by far a better living experience than the current world system totally shit, unequal, some very rich ass hole and other souls very poor, most physically unfit and unhealthy, people have no respect anymore, unfriendly, paranoid, mentally unstable.. anyway I think you get my point 🤣
So Sparta, whose ‘”warrior” way of life was only made possible by rampant slavery and by abusing and murdering its own citizens, who only became the dominant power in Greece because of substantial foreign aid from Persia, who were only the dominant power in ancient Greece for maybe 25 years, is meant to be an example of a successful society?
These are very very close to Hitler’s plans about a perfect Germany. In his book Mein Kampft, he has a program for kids exercising twice a day, learning the art of punching (when to and to whom), also citizens not being able to marry until they had reached a certain amount of physical health through military service.
I do wonder how completely this all really worked out in reality. People have different personalities, and I’m sure very many felt like misfits their whole lives but managed to avoid complete failure. I’m sure the Spartans were more authentically Spartan than the Soviet citizens were authentically communist, but I’m also sure that Xenophon doesn’t tell the complete story of how it really manifested.
As always in History. No culture could endure the hardships it takes to be the number one for ever. Once people start to enjoy the luxuries of the success they become weak and another hungry culture takes over. I think in history they taught us, that the social rules were so brutal that all Spartans had been kind of elite fighters, but that their process and culture was so hard, that they had way to little children reaching adulthood to sustain their power….
It was VERY excessive but I do really think a more balanced version of it would be positive for our modern society which has become far too subjected to comfort and pleasure. Imagine a world where people were raised with a mindset to try hard and do hard work and strive for the best they can be rather than “just accept yourself and just do whatever you want”
The more progressive in society we move the more this article and opinions will change from “It was not so bad to it’s Terrible and un-acceptable” becuase you can’t make on opinion back in history . If you this fragile in the world the further back we go the more likely YOU WILL DIE!…. So Yes I do think for that time it was perfect training… It proved since we still talk about it!.