The Ultimate Guide to Living a Goth Lifestyle is a comprehensive guide to understanding and embracing the macabre subculture of goth music, fashion, and mindset. It explores the history, basics of Gothic fashion, Gothic literature, poetry, and how to incorporate gothic elements into everyday life.
Goth is a lifestyle where people follow their own set of values and attitudes, including architecture, literature, dressing style, appearance, art, and music. To become involved in goth culture, one must research its history, learn the basics of Gothic fashion, expand their music library with Gothic music, explore Gothic literature and poetry, and connect with gothic elements.
The goth lifestyle is not just about enjoying music, dressing as one likes, and dancing wherever the moment takes you. Goths live normal lives, such as working, having families, buying groceries, reading, and watching TV. Some are antisocial, while others are the life of poetry, painting, or photography. They can also start a band and play goth music.
Style-wise, a dark sense of beauty is celebrated, with boots, corsets, heavy eyeliner, and black clothing being popular for Goths of all ages. Goth is a way of looking at life as much as a fashion aesthetic. To become goth, one must work on making their outside match the darkness within.
Goths tend to dress up in everyday life rather than in their leisure time, while weekend goths dress up in black carnival costumes. A Goth is someone who finds beauty in things others consider dark and mysterious, but that doesn’t mean they are evil.
📹 This gothic-inspired New York City apartment has to be seen to be believed | Home tour
Photographer Aviv Grimm has curated a unique black and white living space that’s adorned with meaningful artifacts from her life.
How to be a gothic girl?
A traditional goth look typically includes leather or vegan faux leather, fishnet stockings, mesh outerwear, and shredded black pants. The true essence of goth culture is more nuanced than traditional black clothing, eyeliner, and boots. Trad goth, or traditional goth, emerged in London in the 1980s and was popularized by bands like The Cure, Bauhaus, Sisters of Mercy, and Siouxsie and the Banshees.
This style was further developed at the Batcave Club in London, which had cobwebs on the ceiling and required walking through a real coffin with a cut-out bottom. Some goth girls lean traditional, while others embrace the colorful or romantic aspects of the subculture.
What is the lifestyle of a goth?
The Goth subculture is a group of non-violent intellectuals who engage with a range of cultural forms, including Goth rock, Gothic literature, Victorian and medieval history, and contemporary horror cinematography. They frequently exhibit a cynical perspective on societal ills and a morbid fascination with death.
What is the goth mindset?
Academic research indicates that goths are refined and sensitive, with a focus on poetry and books, and not much on drugs or anti-social behavior. Teens often stay in the goth subculture into adulthood, likely to become well-educated and enter professions like medicine or law. The subculture appeals to teenagers seeking meaning and identity, teaching them to understand difficult aspects of life. Drug use is a glue binding the goth scene together, but it is not associated with a single drug.
A 2006 study found that those with higher levels of goth identification had higher drug use. A University of Glasgow study found goth subculture to be strongly nonviolent and tolerant, providing valuable social and emotional support to teens vulnerable to self-harm and mental illness.
Is 30 too old to be goth?
The goth subculture does not have a cut-off age, and individuals can decide they are goth at any age. There is no need to stop being goth by a certain birthday. The Lady of the Manners plans to grow up as the eccentric old lady, accumulating a wardrobe of black vintage clothes.
There is no cut-off age for going to clubs, except for trying to pick up younger nubile gothlings. It is important to go out, dance, and have fun without feeling angst about one’s age. However, as one ages, big, complex eye-makeup designs and capes from the post-Halloween sale rack may look out of place.
The joy of growing older is that one becomes more comfortable with themselves, which means not needing to prove their gothness by living up to goth clich’s or stereotypes. For example, one might decide that getting enough sleep is more important than staying out all night at the club.
What is a goth girl mentality?
The gothic social scene provides a platform for goths to form communities and share ideas, often found in coffee shops, thrift stores, clubs, and music stores. Goths are often associated with existential philosophy, a strong sense of individualism, and an appreciation for the darker side of life, supernatural, mysterious beauty, art, emotion, mystery, and drama. They may also be interested in divination and learning how to read tarot cards. Gothic music is a significant part of goth culture, with haunting or dramatic music often focusing on gothic themes.
When interacting with a goth, it is important to appreciate the individual’s style, accessories, makeup, and musical involvement. Look for unique items like fishnets, capes, studded or spiked clothing, ankhs, chokers, and more. Goths often wear light colored makeup with dark accents on their lips and eyes, and may also have elaborate cat eyeliner or colored eye contacts.
In addition to recognizing the goth’s unique appearance, it is also important to compliment the individual’s musical involvement by asking them about live music or their favorite bands. By doing so, you can show your interest in the goth community and help them develop a strong connection with their community.
How do I start being a gothic?
To express yourself in the goth subculture, consider writing poetry, painting, taking photographs, starting a band, and playing goth music. Be friendly and kind to others, as they may not understand or respect the subculture. Avoid arguing and let others tell you what to do, even if it’s not for the sake of the community. The most important thing is to be yourself and participate in a community that accepts that. Develop your own style naturally, as genuine interest in a scene will naturally influence you. Do what makes you happy and participate in a community that accepts your unique style.
What is a soft goth girl?
The soft goth aesthetic, which originated in the beauty scene with the Netflix show Wednesday, is now gaining popularity in the style space. This style is characterized by a subtle approach to spooky and gloomy elements, featuring leather, black, lace, silver, and gold pieces with a feminine touch. This aesthetic can inspire moody, understated fall wardrobes or take a wilder path. Here are 11 soft goth outfit ideas to channel your inner Addams family member this fall.
Barbie Ferreira’s “Euphoria” outfit is a perfect example of a soft goth outfit, featuring a dainty tulle midi skirt and a black sequined top. A pearl headband completes the look. Hailey Bieber’s business goth-inspired ‘fit’ is another example, featuring an oversized blazer and short black piece beneath. Black combat boots complete the outfit for an edgy feel.
Is it a sin to be Gothic?
The assumption that individuals who adhere to the goth subculture are Satanic or witchcraft practitioners is a misrepresentation that is not supported by empirical evidence. It is a common misconception that all goths adhere to a specific religion. In fact, many goths are not religious, or belong to other religions.
How do Gothic people speak?
Gothic, an extinct East Germanic language spoken by the Goths, is primarily known from the Codex Argenteus, a 6th-century copy of a 4th-century Bible translation. It is the only East Germanic language with a large text corpus, and its only known descendants are proper names in historical accounts and loanwords in other Romance languages. Gothic is part of the Indo-European language family and is the earliest Germanic language attested in sizable texts.
The oldest documents in Gothic date back to the fourth century. The language was in decline by the mid-sixth century due to the Goths’ military defeat, their elimination in Italy, and geographic isolation. It survived as a domestic language in the Iberian Peninsula (modern-day Spain and Portugal) as late as the eighth century. Crimean Gothic, a language known for its sound changes, survived in the lower Danube area and isolated mountain regions in Crimea as late as the second half of the 18th century.
Do goth people believe in God?
Goths are a diverse group of people from various religions and backgrounds, including pagan, agnostic, atheist, satanist, and Christian. They share a sensitivity to spirituality, tolerance, and self-expression, despite their intimidating attire. They are open-minded and accepting, and they are not considered Satanists for their interest in alternative subcultures. Some gothic stereotypes that bother them include being labeled as Satanists and being criticized for their open-mindedness and acceptance.
What age is goth girl for?
Chris Riddell, who co-created the bestselling Edge Chronicles series with Paul Stewart, has illustrated a considerable number of children’s books, including the award-winning Pirate Diary. Additionally, he serves as a political cartoonist for the Guardian and Observer newspapers. The hardcover edition is suitable for readers between the ages of seven and 11 and is available in a Main Market version.
📹 It’s Hard To Be Goth Now
Check out the band @MaleTears – Featured in this video is the song Model Citizen. You won’t be disappointed, they’re epic.
People only care about labels now, I had this girl that made fun of me a few years back for being goth, with the rise of popularity for the style nowadays, that same girl is in it now for just the style, labeling herself goth with little to no music or info about the culture I love these types of chit chat vids angela !! i’ve been following you for years ever since I was a young babybat, I love learning about the subculture and older scene through you !!
It is so strange being in the last generation that had both one foot in the pre-internet world and now one in post-internet. Having experienced both working so hard to hunt for those obscure bands’ albums back then (so many good memories from road trips with friends between ’92-’96 to hit record stores in bigger cities in northern California and the absolute hand-trembling TRIUMPH felt when you finally found a record that you’d been hunting for months/years), and now having wikipedia where there is so much readily accessible information and bandcamp where there are so many great goth bands from all over the world in a matter of a few clicks is …just so insane to sit and really think about. My now husband was a DJ in our home town back then and he has a story of all the DJs around town at that time passing around one copy of a certain record to each other because there literally was only one copy of it in the entire area and then the absolute euphoria he felt when he found a copy of his very own while he was a foreign exchange student in Germany. He later worked at one of the local record stores in our home town for a number of years and was well-known around town as the guy you went to when you were trying to find any sort of obscure album because more likely than not he could special order it for you. I would never have met him and not spent the last 27 years together had it not been for that record store, me looking through the Cure section one day to see if there were any albums I didn’t already have, and him coming up to me to ask if I’d heard of The Glove.
I’m currently 17 years old, not even an adult. I really appreciate how easy it is to be goth today in the 2020s, but whenever I hear stories like this I really wish I were here earlier. I have yet to find a single goth my age that is actually there for mainly the music and not mainly the label. I’m in this Facebook groups with mostly eldergoths who were all friends back in the day, and seeing them sharing and being passionate about the music, talking about all their good memories from the goth club years ago… I really envy that.
I actually got into an argument with this kid on Facebook not long ago about Lil Peep. I commented that Lil Peep wasn’t goth and that goth’s parent genre is postpunk and not mumble rap. He got upset and told me that goth has “evolved beyond the music” and that “goth is an interpretation”. I’ve been in the subculture for over 13 years and it’s just insane to me how now suddenly they want the label 🙄
I’m a gen z goth and glad I’ve grown up with the Internet, but it’s annoying to see how fast misinfo is spread, bc then you get my peers trying to talk to me like I’m a walking fetish bc of the “I want a goth bf/gf” memes, and think it’s not about the music at all and just looking slightly edgy? And that’s the state of goth that’s trending so everyone wants to hop on that. If it’s just being used to describe smth then whatever bc labels aren’t meant to be that deep. But these people make it deep when they shove into a label that happens not to fit them, so they force it to fit them by pushing out those who already use it. And if you remind them it’s about music, “oh you’re a gatekeeper and oldhead and not letting people enjoy things, goth has evolved beyond music akshully bc I personally don’t like it.” Buzzwords like gatekeeper are also trending but without much meaning tbh. But ofc if anything trends it has to get diluted in order to trend. Whether it’s a word, a clothing style or a mental illness. Brain cells aren’t trending though who wants those 🤪
I’m really glad you posted that quote. “goth doesn’t hold the patent to dark themes.” I feel like a lot of times when people talk about the “posers” they go on about how they hate how they dress the part but don’t listen to the music. Goth isn’t a look right? It’s a music subculture. Someone dressing in dark clothes and not listening to the music doesn’t make them a poser. Someone calling themselves goth without listening to the music makes them a poser. Anyways cant wait for the updated skin care routine. My skin needs help.
Ok…….heres a long one. The biggest problem I can observe in person right now, as mentioned already in some other comments here, is that goth is seen as a fashion statement. Not even going to call out the whole sexual kink thing. Really just a fashion statement. And that apparently one is an asshole not worth spending time with at the goth club if you make it firm and clear that the goth music is what makes anyone a goth at all. Period. One of my coworkers is someone who I was really excited to meet at first. I’d been working at this company for years and finally another goth to share cool stuff with and plan to go to events with. And introduce to my few other goth friends. We talked everyday about fashion and makeup stuff, and finally it hit one day when we started talking music. She was aware of The Cure, Sisters of Mercy, Siouxsie, etc. But didn’t know any of their music. Didn’t know the 90s bands. Didn’t know about any of the newer bands that our local scene had gone apeshit over in recent shows we all gathered at (Twin Tribes, Actors, Diavol Strain, Wingtips, Curse Mackey, etc.). She even had the nerve to say she preferred a certain DJ in town over the others, but couldn’t tell you why genre-wise or because of which bands popped up more in their mix. It was all bullshit and all she cares about is the fashion. She’ll take selfies with shirts of bands like MCR or Bring Me The Horizon and hashtag it with goth girl. I never made the accusation that she wasn’t goth or called her out for not liking the music, but oddly enough she just began to only hang out with the other normie coworkers.
Honestly, I just really want to make friends with someone that likes the same music that I do, but it’s so difficult because of the people that dress goth for the ‘look’ and ‘aesthetic’. I get so excited when I see someone who dresses goth, only to be disappointed when I find out that they don’t care about the music and know nothing of the subculture’s history. Now everyone wants to be ‘goth’ because it’s popular, so that makes trying to find genuine goths really difficult. Thankyou for the article, I’m glad I’m not the only one who feels this way!
I was in a weird situation where I was raised with goth music but I looked like a normie until I was 14 and started expressing myself like I wanted to. I found your website around that time and I’ve called you my goth mom even though I’m a total stranger because you helped me become the woman I am now at 21 almost 22. You taught me goth etiquette and I relate to you with having had a rough upbringing myself. Just know that there are genuine goths in my generation and not just e-girls. Thank you Angela. 🖤🥺
What I don’t understand is what’s so appealing for people who don’t like Goth music to call themselves Goth. Liking the black lipstick and the studs and such is fine, but other cultures made use of that too. Shit, Aaliyah wore a lot of black, chains and leather and she was a very respected R&B icon. You don’t have to call yourself Goth to use that stuff so what I just fail to understand is the importance of making Goth a fashion thing and /having/ to call yourself Goth when you can simply just be you and like these things. Do your own thing ya know? No shame in that. The supposed offense people take to the suggestion that you have to like Goth music to be Goth also makes no sense to me because it’s a million times more permissive than all these new ”requirements” people seem to push on new members. I need a third hand to count every time I saw a conflict over how ”true Goths” wear this or that or ”true Goths” read this or that It’s ironically very much akin to gatekeeping for this brand that seems to complain about gatekeeping, in my opinion a lot more than just suggesting certain bands and songs to immerse yourself into Goth culture. Hell I’ve been told I’m not a Goth for dressing too masculine when I thought that dressing however you like was the whole point /as long/ as you like Goth music. I don’t care so much whether I am or not and I’ll explain why in a second. My point stands. It seems very ironic to claim gatekeeping when such commercialization seems to try and limit members into what brands and styles to wear to ”be a Goth”.
Honestly, if I could be young again today, I don’t think I would take the trade. Getting into goth in the 90s was such an intense period of discovery, self expression and so many memories of goth rituals with my friends that cannot be replaced by IG followers and spooky box hauls. Thank you for the reminder, Angela 🖤
We are living in the Society of Spectacle. We are defined by how we appear, not what we actually do. Social media and the internet is definitely a big part of that. What’s really sad is that there is so much good information out there, but nobody wants to look for it. They just want to have it all given to them.
“Goth doesn’t hold the patent on dark themes.” YES, thank you ! I’ve always had a strong interest in dark themes, literature, harmonies in music, clothing… but I don’t feel a specific thing for goth music. I can enjoy it on occasion, but it’s not part of my usual playlists. I’m not a goth ! Just dark-liking, gothic-inspired if you want. And I don’t see why this would be a problem, why people absolutely want to claim a label for themselves, label that they DO NOT FIT. Just like the dark stuff and chill, peeps.
As an elder Gen X goth that grew up in the 80s in the middle of nowhere Indiana, I had no way of finding anything about goth. Hell, I didn’t even hear the term there. I always said I was alternative. But, listened to whatever goth and dark wave music I could. Which wasn’t a lot. I totally get you in the statement about you would have loved the internet then. My only way of hearing new music was on mtv and 120 minutes. Which they played in the middle of the night on Sundays!
I generally disagree with gate keeping, I think it prevents people from finding their true identity within a scene/subculture, but some things do need to be protected- such as calling out people who don the label of goth, punk, whatever when they don’t listen to the music or follow the ideology. goth has been majorly lost to consumerism and it’s very saddening. i get frustrated seeing all my fellow gen z’ers buy “goth clothes” from fast fashion sites such as shein, it’s all about looking the part, fitting in with everyone else, not about your own identity and self expression.
I got into goth in the mid-late 00s. I feel like it was a nice balance between the 90s and today. In the 00s, it was easy to find goth bands and info online, but it wasn’t nearly as overwhelming and oversaturated as it seems now. And folks online seemed to talk and actually listen to each other more in the 00s than they do now. (Now it just feels like yelling into a void lol) Anyway, I recently found your website, and I’m really enjoying your articles! 🖤
I’ve noticed this strange pattern developing for years now. I’ve been alternative for two decades, living in the same city through out. In the 2000s, in my experience, freaks were drawn to each other like magnets. We formed friendships by our taste in music (many of us met at concerts), entertainment, our odd senses of humor, what we knew about that the mainstream ignored. Then in the 2010s, I noticed this shift taking place: people got quieter, they kept to themselves or only chatted with the group of people they came to events with. Of course this still happened before the 2010s, shyness is timeless. But the number of gregarious folks dropped, usually the most talkative people at alternative events now are either cool elders (glad they are still around!) or the perpetually drunk or high. It’s gotten lonelier, the last time I made some real friends at an event was 2013. I don’t use social media, so my opportunities at making friends and connections has dwindled significantly. It sucks. There is this group of dj’s who put on goth events in my city, very cool people and I am grateful for what they do. But I’ve been going to these events for some time and while I have had polite conversation, I have yet to make a lasting connection with anyone. Perhaps it’s just in my head, but I feel people are more on guard at these events now. There are the obvious tourists to be weary of, the ones who come dressed in slutty, Spirit Halloween type get ups, spend all night taking selfies, and the horny normies who come out to see specifically them.
I was afraid this would happen back around 2008 when I encountered an article in a teen magazine talking about how UgLyYy goth fashion is but how it CAN be pretty, and then proceeded to show a bunch of photos like 14:30 . They want to take our fashion/music/etc. and claim it as their own, but only after watering it down.
Cheers for the shoutout in the description! New people who experience goth only online don’t get how different it is experiencing it in person through clubs and gatherings. The policing happens far less and if people are judging you they usually do it silently. Supporting your local goth scene is enough, no one cares if you are goth or not and you will be exposed to goth music through it. People don’t tend to stick around very long if they hate the music. Many people are fans of what they think goth is as opposed to just experiencing the goth subculture as it really is.
Even before I listened to goth regularly, I had an idea of what it was and was very confused at people who were claiming “goth rap” was a thing. It’s practically a nonsense word lol. In my experience, when I began listening to Siouxsie, SoM, the Cure, Rosetta Stone, Switchblade Symphony, etc it was like something clicked and I was just obsessed with listening to the music. It wasn’t about the label, because I didn’t care about the term. Granted, I love dressing dark but never would have considered myself a goth before I found my love for the music. What I don’t understand is people who are so concerned about the label. They are mad at us for saying they use it incorrectly, but why are they so intent on using it? Especially if they know it doesn’t apply to them (although probably many haven’t even heard a goth song). I have never understood “poser” logic. Why would u want to pretend to be something that you can be? If you want to be goth so bad, then pick up an album and fall in love with the sound. And if you hate it, then why do you want the title so badly? It’s confusing lol.
I was born in ’92 and technically qualify as a Millennial, but even with the saturation of the garbage that misrepresents us back when I started getting into goth, I can say with confidence that I busted my ass to research things as thoroughly as possible, because I was truly passionate about it and I try to do my best to avoid spreading the wrong information about it. It’s such a tragedy that instead of wanting to understand what goth is, people opt for bastardizing its name by judging its value based on labels (be it physical or not) and associating things that were never meant to be there in the first place… and then systematically shit on everyone who knows better and just calls us elitist, gatekeepers, “old heads” that are unwilling to evolve, etc. It’s stupid how people are so desperate to lie, contradict, and rely on blatant hypocrisy.
Yea same here i am 24 and i dressed “normal” until 18 but listened the good ol goth music a lot earlier than that, and i’ve been ONCE in a goth night club, once in my life!! All i see is these e girls and others and since my town is kinda small, i gotta go to the capital city to have a goth night and just when i discovered them, the Plague hit.. The worst is that these e girls still mock my trad goth looks and be like “hihihi weird looking person hihi” even tho they pretend to be goth as well.. I can’t! Only good thing is that now there’s a lot of gothy stuff at trift stores since the e girls keep abandoning their “goth phase” quite fast
Being the only goth around my area (I live in a city of 100,000 people), It’s impossible for me to find other goths. I tried social media to make goth friends, but those groups are all about models who wear next to nothing and guys drooling and simping for that. And now that I still am dating, it is almost impossible to find someone who is worth it because guys just want my body and that notch in their belt as opposed to getting to know me. Nobody that I’ve been talking to knows anything about goth music, knows what our subculture is about so they tell me that I’m not goth because of X,Y, or Z based on their ignorance of what mainstream society tells them. I feel lost, but I will NEVER compromise who I am to please a potential friend or lover
“Goth doesn’t hold the patent on dark themes” I very confidently claim myself as a metalhead. I notice so many people associating the way I dress with goth, and come up to me in public making comments about. I usually shrug it off and/or correct them, but it is kind of frustrating in a way seeing how many people strictly assume goth by the way you dress. I wear a lot of band T’s and ripped jeans by default, but when I put an outfit together you’ll find me wearing black vintage clothing, or black “Victorian” style (like you briefly pointed out Victorians being a sort of misconception of goth). I think it’s absolutely beautiful and it makes me feel whole and happy. That is what matters to me. Although it’s not my misconception of Goth (at least I don’t think) I can’t help but feel at some sort of fault when people get me mixed up. It also makes me question my place. But at the end of the day, I am me, and I like what I like. Anyways, I really enjoyed this article! Thank you for sharing this, I think it’s really important for people to know.
hey! gen-z here. i started getting into the ‘alt’ scene about 3 years ago as one of the bunny-hat-wearing, mother mother listeners claiming i was goth or emo. now im 14, going on 15, and my style is pretty ‘goth’ now, but i never really felt like a real goth and i didnt really understand why. neither of my parents were and/or are goth or are a part of any subculture so i thought thats why i felt like a poser. then i considered that maybe it because i was young, but then i realised i wasnt really listening to the music, because i didnt know that goth was a MUSIC subculture. i think thats partly because i found out about goth from tiktok (home of the lil peep e-girls), plus all the ‘goth girls’ in my high school, as nice as they may be, really just listen to doja cat and wear eyeliner. now that ive explored the music, which ive found i really enjoy, and now i really feel as if im a ‘baby bat’ (but i do still listen to mitski. shes my exception <3.)
It never surprises me as to how many misinformed people there are out there in regards to goth. Why is it that our subculture is the one getting hijacked? I understand how people who are darkly inclined want a place to fit in, but people need to learn what goth is and isn’t. The first thing they need to learn is that GOTH is not a look; it’s a music subculture. There are plenty of people in the goth scene who do not have that stereotypical look. And just because someone looks darkly doesn’t mean they are goth. I think it’s time for the alternative scene as a whole to remove the “goth” or “gothic” label from the fashion style because it’s causing a lot of confusion. Just call it “dark”. “Goth does not hold a patent on dark themes” is absolutely correct. Many other subcultures, apart from goth, share dark themes, and this is where people get it mixed up.
As an 18 year old who has been into goth for about 5 year years now, I honestly wish I could’ve started out in a time where it was harder to get involved. Sure it’s great that I can get easy access to everything I want/need, but that honestly takes some of the fun out of it. I take somewhat of a more old school approach to things and I can safely say nothing compares to FINALLY getting that CD you ordered a month ago or finding that perfect item in the thrift store. I think you tend to cherish those things alot more. I don’t have memories of listening to music on spotify, but I do have very fond memories of getting the mail and bolting to my room to tear open that package I’ve been waiting for, struggling to get that fucking plastic off, and finally getting it open and popping it into my CD player and listening to the album front to back while going through the liner notes just taking in the art that accompanies the album I’m listening to. My generation is very privileged having the internet and not really having to deal with being one of the freaks, but I feel as if alot of us take it for granted and lose some experiences and miss out on stuff. Record stores are for the most part obsolete, alternative clothing stores are few and far between, clubs and concerts aren’t happening as much for obvious reasons, and there’s no longer that group/tribe feeling. Even in bigger cities I haven’t seen a group of goths, punks, metalheads etc. just hanging and having fun. Everything is online now so why go out?
I’ve been thinking about this in a much broader sense – the internet really didn’t work like we expected it to. There’s SO much oversaturation in literally any category you could imagine, and it’s made us lose our sense of what is true. When you find any information, it takes 10x the effort just to verify its legitimacy. Most of the time I just don’t have enough time in my day to figure out that kind of thing and I’ve had plenty of conversations where we just agree to take something with a grain of salt, with a “hey idk, that’s just what I heard” sort of note attached. It’s really sad. This does happen in other subcultures/genres as well. When Skrillex came out with Scary Monsters and Nice Sprites, people completely appropriated the “dubstep” label. There was an entire history of a totally different genre already called dubstep, which evolved out of UK garage and, namely, Jamaican dub music, which had evolved out of reggae. Suddenly this post-hardcore kid starts making gritty electro-house and bam, the US calls it dubstep, for some reason. (Because it goes wobble wobble, I guess. It’s the equivalent of hearing any music with horns in it and calling it ska.) A huge part of the goth predicament is that our social groupings are very visual-based. It makes sense; it’s the first thing you can observe about someone that’ll hint that you might get along with them. But the unfortunate result is that the fashion becomes disconnected from the subculture. People who aren’t curious about it just look at the aesthetic and say, “yep that’s goth,” (in favor or not) and the public’s understanding of the label never goes beyond that aesthetic.
Na, I’m soooo glad we didn’t have the access to the internet back then that everyone has now. I wholeheartedly believe that’s what truly killed the REAL Goth culture…and pretty much any other atl sub genre that was so beloved in the 80’s & 90’s. The internet has made it about nothing but vapid materialistic narcissism with no real understanding of what “goth” even means anymore. As frustrating as it was sometimes, I loved the hunt of finding a new band, hangout, clothes, etc. That’s what made it so damn rewarding in the end. Not to mention, when you DID find that gem, you were able to fully immerse yourself and enjoy it with every part of your being instead of thinking you have to take a picture or record everything just to post it online for the validation of a bunch of meaningless strangers just to forget about it 5 seconds later. Back then you didn’t want the world to know everything, you wanted to keep things “underground” and almost to yourself and I loved the hell out of that. Nothing will ever be the same. This goes with everything in general. Things are way too easy now so people don’t want to work for anything anymore…income, relationships, friendships, etc. It’s funny, we live in a time where every piece of information is literally at our fingertips, and yet I feel this is the dumbest society has been in my almost 40 yr lifetime…
There used to be a decent record/music store, but it sadly went out of business. I’m still adding music to my playlist, I still discover some goth music. I sadly live in a rough situation, but it hasn’t stopped me from being my spooky self. And I’m always learning new things of the culture that I love so much.
I know its tough for zoomers who are still teens to get this as they tend to see the world primarily as how it is represented through social media, but as a (nearly!) OG Goth (second wave late eighties baby bat) I can say the Goth scene now, and the Goth music that is being put out now is better than it has been in years. If being part of the Goth/alternative scene is important to you then as soon as you are old enough go to college in a big city that still has a Goth/Darkwave/ alternative scene, its what most of us had to do back then too! You will find clubs, people, gigs, festivals and because you are young it will be YOUR time, you will meet YOUR clan or tribe or group and have these same times, don’t think it is something that just ended in the nineties! But you have to always keep in mind, social media is a dishonest mirror, it is not the real world! YOUR Goth scene is waiting for you and if your town doesnt have one then do what we ALL had to do in the nineties or naughties, you MOVE to a city that you can truly call home and where your heart is!
lol at “BULLSHIZZ QUIZZES” ! yeah I’m not surprised that there is some magazine out there that goes bananas whenever a celebrity wears anything that’s goth like. just because someone wears anything that’s goth inspired doesn’t mean that they are a goth. they just happened to like certain aspects of the goth fashion and make up and decided to incorporate it into their style or look … or they’re maybe just getting payed to look that way – either one or the other. it’s unfortunate that you have to sift through all the crap to get the information that you need on the things that spark your interest. welcome to the internet folks.
I got unbelievably lucky in 82-83 because my 7th grade English teacher went on maternity leave to be replaced by a new substitute who spent the last few years earning her master’s degree as a foreign exchange student, in London. As she introduced herself she told us “I am a Goth”, even writing it on the chalkboard (yes she was dressed on black with makeup and accessories but the dress was a long frumpy one that covered her from the neck down as she needed to dress appropriately, that and she had to wear orthopedic shoes instead of her pikes) She challenged us saying that her music was not our music, until I, having been up all night whenever I could watched music articles and, I knew and loved her music. So I was fascinated and first chance I got turning in a paper repeated Sister of Mercy and Bauhaus lyrics to her. She looked like she had swallowed a frog, but after school asked me to carry a heavy bag for her to her car and off we went. She had mix tapes from the Bat cave a friend had made for her. Such was getting Goth music for me when I was 13. (Edit: for the sake of accuracy… No I don’t remember exactly whose or what lyrics I repeated to her. Sisters of Mercy formed in 1980, but actual records released to the public came about much latter. Lealith DID however have recordings and did tell me that she went to see them at gigs. It’s still possible that they played a live song of theirs in those music article shows for to me to repeat to her but more likely it wasn’t. Please forgive me, it was over 39 years ago after all and hard to keep tiny details straight during that time especially when there where traumatic events that happened)
100% agree. as someone from a super small and conservative town, my only source to goth was the internet. ive moved from that town to somewhere marginally larger, but there’s still -2 goth community existing here. it’s really frustrating. i just want to lie down in the grass at night and talk about spooky music with some people
It’s already insane to me how much things changed in the last 10-15 years. I grew up with my dads good old hard rock music in a rural area in Europe. Me and all my alternative living friends got so much hate for being different. I found my love for goth and metal music and aesthetic when I was 11/12. Now I am nearly 25. But where I lived there was just no goth scene. But all of the alternative people who were teenager or in the early 20s at that time just sticked together and were a big family. So I grew up without the ‘goth etiquette’ because all people around me were punks or metalheads. Yes, back then people had the internet, but normally there was one computer for the whole family. So as a teen, I was lucky if I had two ours in the internet in a whole week. I still learned about bands. I felt like I never fit into the goth scene, because when I was a baby bat I never was able to go to the clubs. If you’re whole budget is used up when going to the city, you just can’t go to the clubs. So I spent my time again with the punks and metalheads, because they just chilled with some beers in the park and you were welcome to join. I still love literature, the music, the clothing and the feeling. But your website is the only goth place I feel not alienated. (Edit: typo)
On the point about the muddling of the different subgenes, I honestly believe that knowing or at least having an understanding of them is more helpful than some people may realize. Because the truth of the matter is that Goth did have subgenres. It all started with Goth rock which shortly gave birth to Deathrock (which started in the US) and then gave birth to Darkwave which was goth rock but with added emphasis on the synth soundscape from the keyboard in addition with the guitar to create a dance-like style, and then Ethereal Wave which did the same as Darkwave but instead of making dancey-type of music, it went for soothing and atmospheric instead. And then finally Coldwave which was really just first-wave goth rock being made in Western Europe The point is it was a family that was expanding in household with Goth being the heart of it. Pretty much like Metal and how it gave birth to other subgenres of it’s kind. And learning all this helped make Goth music much more digestible. It’s true that people around my age or younger weren’t lucky enough to get the social treatment but we used the resources we could to try and learn thanks to the archive sites of music that people around your generation and older created with certain websites. There was some misinformation but if you had perserverance and a keen ear, you could really learn enough to get by. I still flashback to the days when I first consciously heard Goth music, specifically the first wave stuff with Bauhaus, Virgin Prunes, Sex Gang Children, etc and how hard it was to get into (with the exception of Siouxsie and The Cure) because it was so different compared to the music I was listening to at the time which was alternative rock and grunge from the 90s.
I legit won’t call myself a goth because I’m not primarily into goth music though I listen to some. I’ve been dressing in all black and being called goth/emo for 12 years/since I was 13 though. It’s hilarious to me that people call lil peep goth. I hadn’t heard of it before this. Perks of not being on social media I guess.
When I lived in Pennsylvania in the middle of nowhere goth was super rare and I felt like a rockstar. Every cd or record or clothing piece acquired was like hitting the lottery and I became super good at sewing my own clothing, but when I moved to Seattle Washington all of a sudden it exploded and now it’s everywhere I look and the ppl who’ve newly picked it up are so clueless about music and movies. I’ve completely lost my identity in this process and am still trying to get it back.
Don’t forget y’all that when something is a trend it means that eventually it’s going to fade away and all that will remain are the core people who liked it in the first place. It happened with rollerblading, parkour, and now it’s starting to happen with rollerskating. For some thing like goth it’s going to take a few years just like with the previously mentioned things but it will eventually go out of style and the people who only cared about labels will stop
When I look back at mt teen years in the 80s I am amazed at all the music from all over the world we would listen to and how we where able to do so. I remember if you got a import of any band how cool you were and how many tapes you would make for your friends. I spent my year book money on Japanese music magazines for bands I liked. Some kids today don’t know the dedication it was to love the music you are into.
Only thing worse than trying to get an import CD in the 90s is looking for a band that’s only on tape. And it’s on a Cr02 tape. Or worse, a DAT tape. I miss the days of 2014-2018 Goth YouTube. Felt like a Golden Age. Lot of great Goth websites online like yours, Ligeia Resurrected, and many others that helped people learn what the music and the scene was about. Then came the Google adpocalypse. As so many websites got demonitized took many Goth YouTubers off the platform. N
Also some of the most influential bands for goth do not consider themselves goth. That could be confusing for people who are taking interest in the subculture. On a side note, it’s awesome that your hearing is great enough to engage in conversations about literature at goth nights. Goth nights for me consist of dancing and yelling “what! I can’t hear you!”
Also I’d suppose when yall find each other back then, you recognize the gift of connection. Whereas now, GenZ kids get their fix through superficial likes and followers on social media, where there’s no real effort or energy exchange and no second-thought – no real perspective about what it MEANS to be unique or feel out of place and actually have to find and make REAL friends and be part of REAL SCENE> now you can go join any group on FB. It’s like, the convenience of it takes away the value of the connection / group / scene. Even still, with so much info at our fingertips, what’s excusing these “goths” (as they claim to be) from learning about real goth bands? You know how weird it is to talk to someone who looks goth and calls themselves goth but doesn’t know ANY Of the artists I ask them about? Sad.
I wear a lot of black (gothic lolita, anime shirts/pieces, game stuff, some music shirts, witch dresses, etc.), i have been called goth, i do listen to a little bit of goth labeled music but i dont like being called goth. im not goth, im just weird, i fit multiple labels. I prefer gothic, more inspired by macabre art, literature, etc. most of my gothic looks are based off demons, vampires and witches from media, not goth music. i dont wear just black as well, i also wear blues, reds, pinks, purples, etc. i avoid the goth tag when posting onto social media any outfit looks i have. most of the time its gothic, anime, dark kawaii, witch or fantasy themed clothes tags.
I remember when I first got into the goth subculture when I was 19. I bought myself a pair of Mad Fish boots, a now discontinued vegan friendly and cheaper alternative to New Rock Boots due to how much money I had. I bought a leather trenchcoat from eBay, which I manage to keep in good condition for 8 years. In fact most of my clothes and music came from eBay and music stores, due to the fact that my hometown didn’t have many alternative fashion shops. It never occurred to me at the time that I could try my hand thrift shopping. I went to the library to find books about the goth subculture to learn all I could about all of it’s aspects. My parents were convinced that goth was all about devil worship, and that as a black guy and a Christian (yes, they also believed that black goths didn’t exist, despite the fact that I know several black goths and Christian goths), I shouldn’t give the subculture the time of day and made me return said books I borrowed from the library early and would even get other relatives involved in the shaming and guilt tripping. It died down after I graduated from university, though I did get the odd snide remark from time to time and my dad would throw a strop whenever I went to a concert. I also remember the dreaded 80s and 90s talkshows, where goths and punks would be dragged on national television to be subject to shaming, ridicule and even unwanted makeovers, the worst being Jenny Jones and now, all of a sudden, goth is being turned into a sexual kink and a mainstream trend.
As someone who’s been into goth for about four years now and is a gen z teenager. I have found it really difficult to find music, not in the fact that it isn’t available like on Spotify but man finding other people who even know goth music is a chore. Like even when I get into a band all I want to do is talk to someone about it. And like the theme of this article when some people tell me they are goth, they just listen to metal or emo/pop punk etc. and dont enjoy goth music at all.
A good way to fight against misinformation whenever I see a friend or someone on Facebook or Instagram who remotely wants to learn about the Goth and Alternative subcultures I share them some playlists I made on Spotify, some YouTubers, or make them a new playlist on YouTube with all subgenres and styles I can, share the links, and give them some explanation about everything I know about it, next I show them as much pictures on the different fashion styles and explain them the variants. Yeah, it’s a hard work but I love the music and the fashion so I do it for love.
My teen years were the mid 2000s MySpace era, and I relate so much to this! I miss the treasure hunts for CDs and clothing, saving like hell to afford all that and gig tickets and hiding on trains to avoid paying for the fare because I had nothing left. Every Wednesday I would not eat lunch at school so I could buy Kerrang or Metalhammer. I still get the excitement and butterflies everytime I hear a new band or song and obsessively listen, granted its easier to do that nowadays! There are pros and cons to both eras, personally I prefer the 2000s… A time of meeting new people in person and at gigs as a way to discover new music, events and even style inspiration with an added dash of the Internet 🦇
This how I feel about any alternative style now, not just goth . Like music was a huge part and then getting and knowing about the culture . Now an e girl with fake freckles is considered alternative or goth yet has no clue about any of the subculture and listen to terrible rap music that has nothing to do with the culture . It’s okay to have multiple music taste like you can listen to rap and goth music the same time but that’s the problem they don’t have a clue what goth music or let’s just if you call your self “punk ” then they don’t have no clue what punk music is as well . I’ve seen this also with the metal head community . If you try to call that out then you are an “elitist ” but that’s not how it works, they are just trying to educate you and make you learn more about the subculture .
If you’re old enough to remember life before the internet, or if you’re old enough to know how goth began (because you were there), consider yourself lucky. What people find on Youtube or tic-tok – or what they read on Wikipedia – will never be as real to them as someone who actually lived through it at the time. Second hand knowledge never measures up to actual life.
As a goth in the early 90s there were only a few record shops & one “goth” shop that was insanely expensive. Being a uni student meant little money. Id go to op shops buy $2 items & tear them apart & add stuff to them. Everyone had their own look, we shared music, when we went to vlubs there was a real sense of community. All these people i met as a late teen Im still friends with. We are all still goth. We still hold events & get togethers. Not as often as we used to as our bodies cant do 4 nights a week out. I feel sad for the younger generation as its now so easy to be “goth”. Easy to buy music & clothes. There’s no imagination in it. I had my own label in the 90s & it makes me so sad that some people don’t even know how to sew on a button. We were lucky. Even though it was hard & we copped alot of crap – especially after the Columbine shootings it was dangerous to be a goth .. even though they weren’t Goth. But we were proud of who we were.
Agree with your point of views Angela. I would loved having all max one click away. And even when we got internet, it wasn’t even close to the one we have today. Didn’t even know the therm goth during 80s, but still I was alternative back then. Maybe not extreme looking, cause of my parents and my age. Round 2000 it started to get a bit easier. But still a struggle to get your music and still lots of diy when it came to outfits. But round that time you were also happy discovering the program that “saved your download attempt”, when your home telephone got a call. ADSL wasn’t that good in that way. But compared with today I still miss those old days with the hunts of new and intresting music. But must confess, I still stumble on new goth bands today I never heard about. And some are/were old, but we didn’t have todays possibility back then to discover them.
This was so interesting! I was the Napster generation (which might be super specific? Anyone else??) Tbh it might have been this slice of time in which we had the best of all worlds. We could find anything and download it, but it took an hour to get 😆 patience was a real virtue, and that might be a good thing.. Oh man though, I’ll never forget downloading my first ever cruxshadows song. I was absurdly excited (for an hour), it finally finished, I clicked play and…..I was never quite the same person again.
Angela I’m not gonna lie, I only know what goth is because you showed up on my fyp one day 😭 and you’re definitely right, it’s weirdly hard to find anything pertaining to goth even though it should be so easy. The only bands I’ve found have been through you or tiktok, which is sad because I’ve been interested in goth since 2020. The sad thing about the internet is that misinformation can be spread super easily, which I assume is why people think that e-girls with a darker aesthetic and Lil peep are goth/emo, I’ve even heard emos get called goth 😭 I feel like most subcultures have been reduced to just an aesthetic nowadays, since in 2020 being “alt” was so popular, but where are all of those people now? It was just for clout
As someone that likes to consider myself a baby bat due to my obsession with the music, art, fashion, and overall culture, it can be annoying when people think I’m in a “phase” or whatever. I’m 26 though so I frankly don’t give a damn anymore, and feel I’ve had a lot more time compared to a 15 yr old baby bat to essentially navigate and grow into what I love, and don’t love. After I finally met elder goths a few yrs back, I realized I was listening to the same music and loving the same stuff as them basically my entire life. It was refreshing to not feel a sense of gatekeeping like I did when I was in 7th grade, when I attempted to get to know baby bats my own age. They thought I was trying to “copy” them, but really I just wanted to find things that appealed to me. Of course I still have times where I want to listen/watch something not exactly “goth” at all, but when I was younger I felt I’d never be welcome because of those alternative interests. Thanks to how welcoming the community currently has felt to me, I started finally dressing how I always wanted to, being more open about what I enjoy, and feeling the confidence I never truly felt before. 🖤
The fact that information on Goth is so accessible these days yet fewer people than ever seem to know what Goth is never ceases to amaze me! It has gotten to the point where I rarely even claim the Goth tag unless I’m aware that whoever I’m around really knows what Goth is. Thank you for creating this article.
My dear being totally different from the mainstream society has ALWAYS been difficult. Allow me to explain, please. If you to go as far back as to when Mozart had become well known to the King of Italy, in the 50s when the youth who never fit to society were considered beat necks, in the 60’s we had the Beatles who dared to leave their hair long (many of the parents in those days saw it as a disgrace), in the 70’s we had Jimmy Hendrix playing the Star Spangled Banner on his guitar at Woodstock, in the 80’s we were the Darklings (what we called in the beginning). The Hippies were for non-violence, as were the Beat-necks (that’s what society called them), while the Punks would stand up to fight, while goths simply watched. The music, once thought to have died in the year of 1972, came back to life simply because of those who enjoyed being creative and carrying little of what mani stream society thought of them. Robert Smith of the Cure, a very creative & talented man, created a song from a love letter to his now wife. Our culture got its name from a music magazine article, the band was Sisters of Mercy and the article declared their music as “goth music”. That really never went well with the band, it pissed them off. Like so many before, my dear, struggling is a part of standing out against the society. But in the end, as I see it, it was worth the adventure was it not? Now, about that beverage, coffee or tea? Soso Blackfeather
I started getting into the music around 1985-1986, before the term ‘goth’ was even used where I lived at the time. I can totally relate to having to pay a lot of money to get transport to get to a good record store that carried ‘alternative’ type music. I was really lucky that there were several record stores in both Berkeley and San Francisco back then that carried a lot of ‘alternative’ type music . By the early 90’s they would have a separate section for goth. I cold bought sooooooo much goth and punk music back then. What is really pissing me off right now are all the wannabes who want to be told exactly what to listen to, how to act and how to dress. It’s like they want to tick all of the boxes so that they can call themselves a ‘true’ goth. You don’t want to get me started about all of the ‘trad goth’ idiocy happening lately. When people use that tag I automatically think that they don’t have a clue as to what they are on about. Oh wow, you teased your hair and did Siouxsie eye make-up…to look exactly the same as all of the other people calling themselves that. Bully for you! It’s ridiculous what people are calling ‘goth’ these days. Somebody looks completely normal but they put on black lipstick and start calling themselves goth. No hon, if you don’t listen to the music that makes you a fashion victim. It’s like false advertising. All of these people desperately want to look what they think is ‘goth’ but there is nothing connecting their outer image to their emotions or soul.
I think not being into any aspect of the music precludes you from being goth. There are so many sounds and angles to appreciate. When kids say we “gatekeep” I just don’t understand. Music is literally free everywhere these days. It’s not hard to listen and find your niche. When “gatekeeping” is thrown my way I counter with “laziness” and “entitlement”. 🤷♀️ We used to work so hard just to get music, to have it at your disposal and yet not appreciate it and appropriate yourself to our culture regardless is pretty annoying. Also, I will one-up any kid with REAL stories of the old schoolers gatekeeping back in the day. We are so much nicer to younger people than when we were fledglings!
I’ve always said that being goth is mostly about the music. Because at the end of the day the wardrobe and liking horror or macabre, its just one part of the scene. My age group probably resonates more with darkwave and nuwave elements of goth more than goth rock just because we grew up in an era where there’s a lot more experimentation with those genres to make them mainstream. I think it’s too easy to be confused like you said because of the saturation and people think something that is “unique or edgy” is goth when that’s not really how it works. lol
“Patience is bitter, but it’s fruit is sweet.” — Rousseau “All things excellent are as difficult as rare.” — ______ The price paid in the “journey,” the hunting down of an outfit or record, the enduring the discomfort of a tattoo, the…etc, creates a better outcome for you when you acquire… Then it’s onto the next thing!! It’s the journey after all, not the destination!
Such an interesting perspective in terms of access, which actually got me reminiscing about my early Goth daze (mid 1980’s). In so many ways, I feel as if my friends and I had it a bit easier than current Goths – you could get a fake ID at any check cashing store in under 10 mn for a couple of bucks, then roll to a Goth club in SF without question. If we were all in the same place, we were ONE, and the bonding began (at 3am post hrs of dancing, over breakfast and clove cigs lol). We all exchanged badly dubbed tapes of unknown bands, spent hours browsing records and purchasing based on cover art at around $5 a pop (for imports no less!), and the hunt was exiting! We had a “can on a string” sort of info line with Goths in other cities and states; bands and their friends traveled back and forth for gigs or clubbing and you made even more friends. Oh and those lengthy drives or public transpo trips to parties far far away!… I’d be remiss if I didn’t mention how easy it was to find beautiful vintage 1920-1940’s velvet dresses and coats purchased for pennies back then, which could easily be found in vintage stores because absolutely no one wanted them… With all of my rambling, I guess what comes up for me here is the need for human connection, and how the internet contributes to isolation and misinformation, although in theory/on paper such access should be a key to open numerous doors. Ya can’t google your way into an experience – esp if the “knowledge” being presented is completely amiss, and/or harmful.
I need these articles to help vent my frustrations. I try venting about it to my friends, but none of them are goth and don’t understand why it upsets me so much that people basically wear the goth subculture as a Look At Me I’m So Edgy and Cool badge. I used to be against gatekeeping, but after being called an egirl (multiple times!!) for dressing how I’ve dressed for 15 years now has pushed me over the edge.
As a Dutch country girl, I had nothing to go on. There was no internet, no clubs, just some articleclips on tv. So in the early days I looked like a psycho with lipstick all over my face😋 (thank you, Robert Smith). I didn’t even know the word goth until much later. In highschool things started to change, with people giving completely different accounts of what goth was supposed to be and how goth was ” whatever you made of it” . This sounded to me like no one really knew what they were talking about so I did what every country kid does: ask advice from older people and the public library. This actually helped!
Nailed it on the button, I get a kick out of when people would just think I am just a punk rocker for having a black denim vest with a Christian Death “Only Theatre Of Pain” back patch yet do not realize that I am in the goth/deathrocker realm as well, sure is a surprise to me how the world has still not figured out that factor how goth/deathrock and the dark punk/post punk factors are what it is that makes the goth/deathrock subculture.
I am sorry for you😞 that sounds so frustrating. As a “city goth” I would go to Generation Records all the time. Every couple or days or if I were just bored just to browse and see what new stuff they had, I would hang out the east village with friends every day until events/clubs/bars were open. They pretty much always had what I was looking for, and goth band shirts which at that time were about equally hard to find. I would have hated to have to take that whole long train ride just to go to GR. I have a fun game you can add to ” you know you were an 90’s alt city kid if”: 1) you both understood and used the phase “I’ll meet you at the cube” Keep it going 😉
I was growing up in the 2000’s, Chilean and not goth but visual kei fan. Most cool people had internet and knew some basic japanese but I had internet only a few hours a week at a friend’s house and cybercafes. I sold candies on my school to have money and starving… Yes, I was selling snacks AND had the willpower to not eat the entire box. Just water or powder juice and sandwiches from home, and school rations I traded for teaching math or language. I did the half of my class art projects in exchange for coin or cookies. Going to the house of some shady individual 3 comunes away to fill my mp3 player with a couple of albums and a curated mix by him, not always the bands everyone liked or you would like. You had to trust him. I was 14, I wasn’t allowed to go to dayclub or events yet. Downloading things not in your language, reading articles in English or Portuguese with a dictionary on the hand… Really awakened a lot of today’s language researchers. I’m talking about 3rd world country in the 2000 internet speed. Downloading an album was an hour. Buying an album was an act of devotion because most came from Japan or USA and sold in USD, not CLP. We didn’t even understand the language, we were there only by the music and the feelings the voices were transmitting. We felt deeply understood by each other and by the lyrics. Poetry to decode, an elevated art form, and we lived for that, it shaped our own identities and souls.
I totally agree that it is hard to join anything alternative these days, too many people just want to follow a trend without knowing the history. I grew up as an alternative in a time, place that had only a handful of people who were alternative and it was hard to find information. I was labeled as going to hell, told to stop wearing all that black shit, and was given a very hard time. Though I am grateful for technology today, because I’m actually being corrected on things that I totally got wrong as a teenager in the early 2000s. I’m so thankful to the elder goths that I have come across on YouTube. You are amazing! Thank you so much for your wisdom!
Most definitely, I feel I am a baby bat. Truthfully, the subculture and various subsets of it have been around in my life since I was a teen myself (I was a teen during the late 2000s when things like the emo scene took off). It wasn’t until my late twenties that I felt the courage to delve into what goth was more. I’m still such a baby bat now but I’d loved bands like The Cure since high school. I think it is a bit intimidating now because of all these watered down labels, and a strange fear of mistaken as an “alt girl/e-girl” which is just something I do not want to be associated with. Genuinely I am so interested, because it feels like I’ve been uncovering a part of myself that had been wanting to come out for over a decade. And, dressing as such overwhelmed me in how beautiful I felt during a time I feel my lowest. The history, the fashion, the scene is something so compelling. I guess I am not sure where to keep learning after researching the music, which I’m still doing, and I would love to learn more (like in terms of fashion). I just found your articles through Male Tears’ IG page, and I’ll be perusal more! Thank you so much for sharing your perspective.
Omg! Our Ticketmaster was in the Customer Service department of Kauffman’s in the mall!😂 And as a Goth from the 90’s, I 100% understand about trying to find CD’s locally. I luckily had a Media Play (!) that had a decent selection and I was able to get almost all Projekt artists like Lycia, Black Tape For A Blue Girl, and their compilation albums, Cleopatra Records artists like Switchblade Symphony, and Christian Death, Gitane Demone, etc. I would pour over every issue of Carpe Noctem magazine and look for new artists and be SO UPSET if I couldn’t find them somewhere locally! Now it’s so much easier to get music and find new bands and listen to them instantly!
Today it might be harder to be a goth (or whatever else) for someone who is starting into because there’s just no people around there you can ask for that doesn’t seem a bunch of dickhead elitists, so there’s no way to solve the complex puzzle box you encounter through tons and tons of saturation and misinformation… and many end up saying “enough, I’m going to think whatever the hell I believe it’s better, I’m going to be myself the master now”. Many people had the patiente an the will to answer the doubts to people starting on whatever, back in the day. But these days seem to have gone. Patiente and joy about that seems to have gone from any area. I asked some people long ago through Livejournal if Coptic Rain, Stereoskop and Genitorturers were goth bands; it made sense, since I had a Coptic Rain song on “The Gothic Compilation part 5”, Stereoskop was moving across the scene in Spain back in the day, and I still think Genitorturer’s “Liar’s Lair” would fit wildly well for dancing in a goth club instead of “insert here your favourite industrial dance song”. They responded me in the best way that neither of them could probably be considered goth. But now, with the “your’re-just-some-random-person-on-the-Internet-and-no-one-cares-on-the-net” attitude camping all around the place?. People trench themselves from both sides!. The veteran ones, because they’re are sick and tired so that many times they end up in a “you either buy my speech or not”; and the newbie ones, because of being perceived that as a sign of elitism, reject the already stablished in a “now I’m going to be the master” way.
I just wanna say I could listen to you talk about literally anything, you have a fabulous voice. This took me back to 2004 when my 10 yr old self got onto the family computer and started searching ask jeeves for info about goth music and subculture because I would obsess over the cyber goths anytime I was lucky enough to go to the mall and pass a hot topic back when it was scary and considered obscure to normies. I feel like I had way better luck then than I do now, dial up included. Resources were limited but things were clear and concise. Its mind boggling how things changed so vastly over the recent generations. Everything at my fingertips yet I can’t find a decent makeup, hair, or look book tutorial to save my life. All the things that once impacted and shaped me are like phantoms today, did they even exist? Its fascinating to look back at and to see how ease and excess sometimes makes it more difficult.
The Mercury in Seattle has just opened up its doors again (with lots of safety precautions, of course); I can’t wait to go back once things calm down at work. 🥺 It always excites me to hear you talk about how things were in the goth scene in the 90’s, because that’s what I honestly wanted when I was attracted to the goth scene, but there’s that bittersweetness that comes with knowing I live in an era of goth that has become superficial, over-the-top, and frivolous. Again, you helped me rediscover my love for the subculture – by validating what it was all about in your day. For that, I’ll always thank you. That being said, I’m happy to see enough people are waking up and becoming aware of the nonsense and are genuinely interested in the subculture. And yes, you’ve hit it; there’s so much incorrect information out there that it is almost impossible for newcomers to fully understand what the subculture is truly about; which is why I’m so thankful for people like you to help guide people in the right direction, should they genuinely be interested. Unfortunately the overload of misinformation has made it easy for the poseurs to assume the label and turn goth into something it isn’t. I deal with a very similar thing with the misinformation about absinthe. Even when presented with cold, hard, historical and scientific facts, they’ll still insist that absinthe is a hallucinogenic drug and that serving it in the traditional way (as I do on my website) is like microdosing, and for sure, it was totally served with fire in the 19th century because they saw Johnny Depp drink it like that in a movie once (From Hell).
I think this is a feeling that a lot of people that were into alternative scenes have in 2022. I wasn’t really a goth – I spent a lot of time around even thought I was more a crust punk since since when my friends and I evolve from just kids interested into alternative music into our true forms, I was the only one that gravitated to Discharge when everyone else got into Sisters of Mercy and the like… But I feel this way, too. The need to hunt for new music made it more reward. Even in the early days of the internet, when filesharing became a thing and places like ebay became an option and while it became easily, it wasn’t still something of a chore… Sometimes, people wouldn’t share music if you didn’t have anything they wanted, or you’d get ripped off by some asshole on ebay who would disappear with your money… The ease of getting music makes it less special and the mass of information means people don’t really understand the scene. It also makes finding new music harder… Between old bands releasing bad albums to cash in on the internet age and new bands not really having the passion to make truly great music. I feel like back in the day I found something cool every month and even eventually branched out of my comfort zone…. But now it feels like I’ll find something I dig like twice a year and sometimes it’s just a re-release of something that came out in the 80s or 90s that never really got noticed when it came out.
Hi Angela! once again you stay keeping the goth scene alive. If I ever want to get info, as a baby bat, I go to you. You speak the truth, you’re real about what you need to say and I’m so thankful for it. Currently, I’m dealing with this issue. I can’t find anyone that actually is passionate about the music as I am, nowadays everyone just cares about looking cool on the surface but know nothing about the scene. And it leaves me feeling bitter because I get called “emo” or that it’s all a phase but then I think about the few things I have at hand and one of them is your website. All the articles I’ve seen, all the info and stories you tell, help me so much. I’ve been a huge fan for a while too so thank you and I love u🖤
I think it’s difficult now to know who is authentic anymore as when I was growing up you could tell what somebody’s music taste was just based on a T-shirt but now it’s true there are a lot of poses it’s quite depressing. Subcultural appropriation is a thing and I think it’s been happening since the 70s I think punk was probably one of the first victims but I think the first real victim was probably the blues when Elvis Presley started making music appropriating black culture.
You’re right about that. It’s hard to find Goths that have things in common besides the music. There are a lot of clashes now because this subculture has so many other personality types in it and more often than not, now they clash with everything. I have been told that because I have a differing view point than the majority that I’m a poser and I’m like ok but I still like the music, I still like the literature, and I have the style down. So just because I disagree with how someone feels about politics (and no I’m not a trump supporter this was over a completely different thing.) and I hate people who play the victim so seeing all these people giving this guy I knew a crutch because he was playing the pity card pissed me off to no end. There is a difference between being a victim and trying to move on from it and using it as an excuse to stay where you’re at mentally. My point being is that nowadays the goth community is full of whiners and enablers, so for the rare ones like me, and like the elders that see stuff like this happening, we don’t really want to associate with the younger ones because they don’t really understand that the way we started was that our mentality was that we wanted to watch the world burn, and now it’s transitioned to “you can’t say that, that’s mean.” It’s turning into a Hollywood washed out act like you said with all of this saturation and misinformation and the enablers in the community that romanticize mental illness (yes that is a big thing nowadays especially in the Ohio Goth scene) like it’s the best thing ever to have schizophrenia, or Bipolar, or to be suicidal.
I bet you people now days couldn’t even survive in the scene back how & when we grew up. However I wouldn’t change a thing I wish I can do it all over again cuz that’s how fun it was. I just feel bad for the people coming up in the scene now so much misinformation, elitist & posers it makes me sad. We all have to help others to learn about the true subculture of Goth
Its funny i started being goth at school ( 14 years old ) and was in a group of girls and boys but the group was made up of punks, Sico billy., greb ( heavy metal head ) and me and my friend were goths, seeing siouxie and the banshees and Bauhaus on tv i was hooked by there music and look . Then started looking in to the music and discovered Dense Society, Alien Sex Fiend, Cult and obviously the Cure. I am still i 80s goth today but find it hard especially in business and the youngsters of today have no idea and look at me as the odd one out lol and there the ones that think you should be dark and depressed, we all met up to the local club and had a good time having a laugh while dancing the night away to cool gothic tunes, i was also in to pugin who started the old goth design again i think that’s why i love old churches and grave yards with all the arches and gargoyles 🤣
These days you’re seen as goth, emo, or just an “girl”/”eboy” for wearing a simple CHAIN. It gets so annoying. I’ve grown up with a gothic mother and I was naturally into the whole style. I’m more into a huge variety of styles so I don’t give myself a specific label, but it’s just embarrassing to see people be all “omg guys I’m goth now!” for wearing a black sundress. I enjoy styles & works of fiction and whatnot without interacting with 98% of the fandoms and the communities. Simply because of the annoying ass “fans”.
Well haven’t been here since late 2019 being a early genZ though as someone who’s late mom was a trad goth for a while I loved everything goth and I literally grew up goth but it didn’t really start until middle School and highschool when I fell in love with joy division and the cure and Rosetta Stone,misfits, crossovers like Aiden Which is emo but has gothic rock and horror punk roots, Bauhaus plus Susie and the banshees (I used text to speech) but thinks to very third wave emo bands that have goth roots I fell in love with emo to so much that I have a Spotify playlist with everything from gothic rock to emo to punk and gothic metal bands with gothic rock influence and finding this website during 9th gave me more gothic rock bands then I ever knew about but I’ve always wanted to go to a legit goth club but they’ve died in my state sadly so hopefully one day I can visit one up north
What kids today don’t understand is that the rap/pop/edm kids hated our guts – and personally I never want to be associated with anything that defines their little world. And even that there was a clear distinction between goth, metal-heads, alternative, indie and emo kids at the time. Now it’s all emo (whilst it being the last subculture) and goth for fun. Crying about gatekeeping while they don’t even care about the subculture, they just want green hair, black clothes and listen to Beyonce. I read articles on the blog of my town and you think, wow a new generation of alternative kids, how cool. But then they talk about that they exclusively listen to 90s r&b or dancehall. And seeing goth kids on the street trying to see what bandshirt they’re wearing, but it’s a Tupac t-shirt. WHAT? To me it’s not about gatekeeping, and I will never do that – if a kid wants to know about certain bands or brands, I’ll talk about it for hours and give you all the details. But they don’t care, it’s only about appearances. It feels like a form of cultural appropriation. Sorry, im getting old, just blowing off steam. Nobody will read this anyway.
Went to school for audio engineering and I can say – Digital quality is not scientifically as pure as a CD. (The smooth analog signal matches the recorded sound wave better than the steps of a digital recording.) A CD isn’t as pure as cassettes… There is audio loss the more music technology pushes forward. Instant gratification does not mean the best gratification. I think the journey was part of the thrill of finding that new Goth music that you connect with. One of my favorite quotes: “A good traveler has no fixed plans and is not intent on arriving. ~ Lao Tzu (which was on a CD I purchased many moons ago but has always struck a chord with me.
I’m kinda glad people didn’t start doing what they did to goth to metal but there really isn’t a bunch of aesthetics that can be ripped off from metalheads just people wearing band shirts of bands they’d never listen to which was annoying enough for me but metal is too abrasive for most plebs to wanna get anywhere near or associate with
As a fellow ‘late Gen X -er’ (I’m guessing from the years you mention) I can relate hard to having to track shit down. It took me months to track down Thrill Kill Kult after falling in love with the Crow soundtrack, and many months of calling the band ‘Pig’s’ actual promoters from my landline phone to find out when they’d play again (after stumbling over Raymond Watts doing a set in London in ’94). Yeah it was difficult to get the stuff and hard choices had to be made (“do I tape over Wet Wet Wet for this Machines of Loving Grace Album…yes, yes I do…”) And scene changes: I hear you. DGMW, I love how goths are no longer seen as social pariahs, (in the UK we were called ‘GOFFIKS’ by chavs who’d then try to fight us) but I’m definitely seeing a lot of aesthetic over culture of late. And I like that the look is popular, but I do think it’s a shame when the essence is ripped out for all the superficial parts. Or entirely misunderstood. Or just flat-out misappropriated. It’s not ‘gatekeeping’ to want to preserve cultural heritage. There’s room for neo-goth and crossover with other genres, certainly, but what is made cannot be undone and should not be denied. It’s not mandatory to enjoy it, but, shit, get to know a movement’s roots before claiming that shit.
From my own observations, I have noticed that in person the “Goth” style is more accepted, than it was, while online you are held to a different standard. Everything is online now, if you didn’t tweet your breakfast you didn’t really eat, now did you? But beauty or perfection matters more than the person behind the photo, it seems. If you are disabled, overweight, “normal” weight, you are ridiculed online, and more. This was not meant to be a rant, and I could surely go on, but the prejudices that were shown decades ago are still there, they only seemed to shift online. At least now it is easier to remove the death threats and hate comments. I have respect for any YouTubers or people in general who can post their “true” self online.
As a gen z goth who only became such a year or two ago, I feel a strange sense of internalized guilt for being in the subculture. I often get very nervous and paranoid and anticipate ppl giving me shit on the admittedly kinda rare occasions that I dress the part, but I only get compliments, and then feel guilty for perusal my Ps and Qs based on the stories of elder goths, as if I have a persecution complex or something. I also hate the notion that some people have that you have to only/mostly listen to goth as your only genre, because that’s BS… my last FM scrobbles don’t reflect the goth side of my music tastes at all because I listen to a few songs from a Shit ton of artists with goth music for the most part but with other genres and bands that aren’t goth, it’s quite the opposite where I listen to a shit ton of songs from mainly just them (Deftones, Prince, The Garden, etc). I hope there’s other especially gen z goths that understand what I’m talking about and that this doesn’t come across as babbling Also you mentioning these place names is really funny to me because I’m from LI… only difference is there’s no scene here anymore or much of anything to really do for that matter- just suburban nothingness, and I guess because of that I resonate with your website more because even if the time was different, you know how conformist and mind numbing LI was
Early 90s. We were lucky enough to have a local library with a librarian who would order books and tapes in for us and then set them aside as recommendations. Although I only found out about Neil Gaiman because someone saw my ankh and though I was a Sandman fan. Luckily, they had The Sound of Her Wings on them 🙂 We basically haunted charity (thrift) shops for clothes. Used to love when mainstream shops had a Goth/Military season, because we could stock up during the sales. I do struggle to find new music now, because there’s so much out there.
“We were dealing with lots of personalities and lots of hormones.” 😀 I’m 36y metalhead from Finland and my experiences are pretty similar. Although believe it or not, we had a fantastic record shop in this “skeever hole of a city”. Finland provided a lot of great metal bands then and now, so the genre was surprisingly popular even in small towns. It’s also sad to see how rare long haired men have become in the street view nowadays. 😭