Narcissistic parents can cause borderline personality disorder (BPD) in their children due to their abusive behavior. The abuse interacts with genetic predispositions, leading to a child who may be over-emotional and find the day-to-day responsibilities of child care overwhelming. While narcissism is not a symptom of BPD listed in the DSM-5, as many as 40% of people have BPD.
Children of borderline narcissists learn to be watchful, not make waves, and not need too much from their unreliable parent. This can lead to a lack of essential skills for being a “good enough” parent, leading to immature coping skills in the child. Children of parents with BPD are at risk of poorer mental health, educational outcomes, and wellbeing. Maladaptive parenting, including childhood maltreatment, abuse, and neglect, has been implicated in the scientific literature exploring the aetiology of personality.
Both borderline and narcissistic mothers may have difficulty appropriately parenting their children, and both may be disorganized. However, not everyone raised by narcs develops a personality disorder.
Narcissistic parenting can cause constant anxiety in children, leading to long-term psychological damage. Children of narcissistic parents and BPD parents may be more likely to develop emotional and behavioral conditions eventually. Research suggests that about 80 percent of those diagnosed with BPD are actually suffering from CPTSD from Narcissistic Abuse with abandonment. The narcissistic mother may lack the dependency on her child and instead be indifferent to their welfare.
📹 Do Narcissistic Parents Cause BPD?
In this video, I reveal “Do Narcissistic Parents Cause BPD”. BPD stands for borderline personality disorder, and it shares many …
Is BPD inherited from mother or father?
The study posits that parental externalizing psychopathology and paternal borderline personality disorder (BPD) traits are genetic risk factors for offspring BPD traits. Conversely, maternal BPD traits and poor parenting represent environmental risks for the development of these offspring traits. Additionally, the study considers the passive gene-environment correlation.
Can a parent give you BPD?
Borderline personality disorder (BPD) can run in families due to shared genetic and environmental factors. Although BPD has a strong genetic component, children are unlikely to develop the condition. Research shows that the heritability of BPD is approximately 46, with the remaining risk varying depending on the individual and connected to unique environmental factors. Parents can take action to help prevent BPD in their children. Despite the genetic component, it is important to take action to prevent the condition from developing in the future.
What turns into BPD?
Borderline personality disorder (BPD) is a mental health condition characterized by extreme mood fluctuations, interpersonal instability, and impulsivity. It is a part of the “Cluster B” personality disorders, which involve dramatic and erratic behaviors. Up to 70% of individuals with BPD have experienced abuse as a child, and up to 70 percent have experienced maternal separation, poor attachment, inappropriate family boundaries, and parental substance use disorder.
BPD is associated with an intense fear of abandonment, difficulty regulating emotions, and dangerous behaviors like reckless driving and self-harm. These chronic, inflexible behavior patterns can lead to social issues and distress.
Are narcissism and BPD related?
Research indicates a strong correlation between Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) and Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD), with approximately 13 BPD patients meeting NPD diagnostic criteria. Additionally, 39 BPD patients may have NPD. When BPD and NPD co-occur, a specific subtype of NPD, known as covert narcissism, is likely, as individuals with this type are highly sensitive to criticism and rejection, may feel distrustful of others, and may experience negative emotions and social isolation. Understanding these conditions can help navigate symptoms and secure treatment.
What is the trauma of a narcissistic mother?
Growing up with a narcissistic mother can significantly impact a daughter’s mental health. The constant demand for attention, manipulation, and emotional neglect can lead to feelings of insecurity, anxiety, and diminished self-esteem. Daughters raised by narcissistic mothers often struggle with self-worth and identity, feeling valued or significant. Establishing healthy boundaries can be challenging for daughters, as the mother’s needs often overshadow the child’s.
This difficulty in setting boundaries and recognizing one’s own needs can affect mental health and personal relationships into adulthood. The unpredictable parenting style can hinder emotional regulation, making it difficult for daughters to manage stress, express emotions, and develop healthy coping strategies. Some daughters may unconsciously adopt certain narcissistic traits as a survival mechanism, complicating their interactions with others.
What kind of parenting creates BPD?
The study aimed to summarize the evidence on the relationship between parenting and personality disorder, particularly borderline personality disorder (BPD). It conducted an overview of systematic reviews that assessed individuals with personality disorder pathology for experiences of maladaptive parenting, compared to psychiatric or healthy comparisons/controls, and the impact on psychopathological and relational outcomes. The majority of studies reported outcomes related to BPD, with study design, methodology, and quality varying.
Out of the eight systematic reviews, 211 primary studies, of which 140 (66. 35) met eligibility criteria for inclusion, were included in the overview. Most studies focused on borderline personality pathology, with study design and methodology also varying. Overall, five systematic reviews found that maladaptive parenting was a psychosocial risk factor for the development of BPD, and three studies found that borderline personality pathology was associated with maladaptive parenting and negative offspring and parenting-offspring outcomes. This research aims to assist clinical decision-makers in translating this research into clinical policy and practice.
What is a narcissistic borderline personality disorder mother?
Borderline and narcissistic mothers may struggle with parenting their children due to their different personalities. Borderline mothers may be disorganized, over-emotional, or act more like an older sibling than a mother, while narcissistic mothers may be harsh, critical, have unrealistic standards, or use shame as a punishment. Many clients who have had bad childhood experiences with their mothers wonder if they qualify for a diagnosis of borderline or narcissistic personality disorder.
This summary aims to provide basic information on how having a borderline or exhibitionist narcissistic personality disorder might impact a woman’s capacity to be a good mother to her children. It is not meant to be a definitive diagnosis of anyone’s mother, but rather to provide some basic information on this topic.
Can controlling parents cause BPD?
The available evidence indicates that an authoritarian parenting style may be a contributing factor in the emergence of BPD symptoms. This is thought to occur through the instillation of feelings of insecurity, low self-esteem, and emotional volatility in the child.
What are BPD eyes?
Manic eyes are a symptom in individuals with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) associated with heightened emotional states, such as extreme excitement, agitation, or rage. These eyes may be observed during episodes of emotional dysregulation, but not all BPD patients will exhibit manic eyes. The cause of manic eyes in BPD is not well understood, but it is believed to be related to the emotional intensity experienced during dysregulation episodes.
Recognizing and addressing underlying emotional triggers can help manage symptoms and reduce the likelihood of exhibiting manic eyes. Dialectical Behavior Therapy (DBT) is a specialized form of cognitive-behavioral therapy designed to address the unique challenges faced by individuals with BPD. DBT skills can promote emotional regulation, distress tolerance, and interpersonal effectiveness, helping to manage BPD symptoms.
Can you get PTSD from narcissistic mother?
Narcissistic parents often have severe negative impacts on their children, leading to lasting negative effects. Children may suffer abuse from their narcissistic parent and develop symptoms of PTSD. Understanding the characteristics of a narcissistic parent, signs of being raised by a narcissist, and the effects of being raised by a narcissist can help individuals heal and break the cycle. Therapists can help individuals understand how to heal and break the cycle, and additional resources are available. Dr. Benjamin Troy, a child and adolescent psychiatrist with over 10 years of experience, specializes in treating depression, bipolar disorder, schizophrenia, OCD, anxiety, PTSD, ADHD, and ASD.
Do narcissistic parents create BPD kids?
Individuals often struggle with recognizing healthy romantic partners and forming relationships based on childhood experiences, often falling into the caretaker role. They are five times more likely to develop BPD, which is unknown if it’s a result of nature or nurture. They struggle with shame, low self-esteem, feeling worthy, self-destructive tendencies, and identifying their own feelings. Children often have an anxious or ambivalent attachment bond to their mother, which is crucial for their mental, physical, intellectual, emotional, and social development. The strength of this relationship predicts their success in school and life.
📹 Narcissistic relationships and bpd
DISCLAIMER: THIS INFORMATION IS FOR EDUCATIONAL PURPOSES ONLY AND IS NOT INTENDED TO BE A SUBSTITUTE …
I don’t understand why there are more articles on narcissist mother’s than fathers. ?? In my opinion narcissist fathers are much much worse and harder on their kids I didn’t see any fathers in your article What’s up with that? Apparently mother’s are more likely to be narcissistic towards their scapegoat than fathers… false. imo narcissist fathers are 10 times worse
The narcissist in a relationship with a borderline i witnessed fed of the reactivity of the borderline and enjoyed being the ‘hero’ in their crises. Blaming the borderline for all the relationship problems but enjoying the idealisation. They gaslit the borderline to believe their rages were the problem, not the narcissists triggering behavior. It took the attention away from anything that was wrong with the narcissists personality, giving them an excuse. Narcisists also get bored more quickly from more stable partners, they live for drama.
In a very bizarre way, having BPD (myself) and dating a narcissist helped me realise how much self-control I’ve developed over the years since my diagnosis and treatment – and it is testament to the fact that people with BPD can “get better”. On one hand, that was probably the toughest situation I could have put myself in, but on the other, it FORCED me to develop healthier coping mechanisms, because if I didn’t, I wouldn’t have survived. Thank you for this article Doctor Ramani. 🙏🏻
This made me tear up. I have quiet BPD (pure) and the narcissistic relationships I’ve been in literally broke me. I was always trying to keep the narcissist from leaving, even trying to become a completely other person in order to keep them. My suicidal thoughts etc would be higher and that lack of sense of self would be heightened.
Both are cluster B personality disorders. Many times the symptoms overlap or are interchangeable. My ex was diagnosed with BPD, but displayed a lot more NPD symptoms. Let me tell you, the Ideation and devaluation teeter totter is highly corrosive to the self esteem. I have called it Pedestal to Gallows, because that is literally how it feels.
I’ve been diagnosed with BPD. I went through a very though childhood and teenagehood, trying to create coping mechanisms to handle my mothers abuse. I was pushed to the edge so many times, I was rejected, invalidated, gaslighted for so many years in very cruel ways. Thanks a million Dr. Ramani, this is the first article I’ve seen of this issue. Thanks for putting visibility on us.
I’ve dated a narcissist for my first love and I’ve came to learn by your articles he was the neglectful narcissist and it’s still impacting me to this day I was emotionally abused and used and learning about it help me it’s was a harmful for my mental health and I still can’t fully live my life but I try everyday
I have bpd. My relationship with my ex narc husband lasted 6 years. It was horrific, our fights were terrifying truly terrifying, like two toddlers in adult bodies screaming at each other !! If I didn’t leave we would have killed each other. I’ am SO SO glad I left the relationship I was truly consumed by my narcissist he took all of me and because I love giving he took and took and took till there was nothing left. It’s sad because the constant abuse is what my npd mum treated like as a child so in a way it felt like home and made it so hard for me to leave.
Oh my gosh Dr Ramani, you gave me so much insight there!!!! My Dad is narcisstic and my mom has both bipolar disorder and BPD. You nailed it when you talked about the constant arguing, my mom lashing out at my Dad for the shit he pulls on her, then her lashing out at me for I don’t know what, because in some weird way she’s angry that she had kids??? I am always caught in the middle between both of them. Currently I have to live with my crazy parents as an adult but I’m trying to figure a way out. And by the way, I love the top you’re wearing, that’s such a pretty color and it looks good on you!!!! Don’t worry about the strap showing, that worked for Jennifer Beals in Flashdance and Madonna, who gives a damn? Sorry, didn’t mean to embarrass you there. I can come off being a little too blunt, but so is Cher and a lot of people really like her so whatever!!! Have a great day!!!!🙂💖💖💖
I have BPD and recently got out of a relationship with a narcissist. I was surprised to see that there are quite some overlaps between the toxic behaviour the we were both doing to each other. But the biggest difference is that I could go into conclusions, see that I made mistakes and I need to address them, see that I am also largely responsible for the fact that the relationship has ended; he does not. He thinks that he is basically innocent, everything is my fault and when I tried reason with him, like when he said I gaslighted him and I answered with “but that’s also what you kept doing to me”, he would not believe me, mock me or get angry. The whole relationship I felt like I was attacked from both sides – by him and by myself. It just hurts because despite my outbursts (which were usually triggered by him, sometimes consciously) I was so empathetic towards him and did everything I could to make him feel treasured and appreciated but now he’s made out of me the only bad guy. Even if we’re never going to be together anymore I wish he could just admit that he was also wrong, that he also hurt me and that he should also apologise to me.
My adult son was clinically diagnosed as a BPD/malignant narcissist and he has made my life horrific. I am his favorite scapegoat and he discarded me yet again seven months ago. His father had the same diagnosis and made my life horrific as well. I have decided to honor my adult son’s initiation of “no contact” so I can finally heal.
Pure BPD, that’s where I’m at after years of therapy, including DBT and self awareness. I would highly recommend DBT. I’ve come out my third relationship with a narc. The most toxic yet, the emotional abuse from him had broken me. The despair I had when he threatened to leave knowing my abandonment issues, he was highly abusive and I struggled letting go because of the intense trauma bonding. My mind is still recovering. And thank you for your articles! They’ve helped me heal so much, along with my therapist. I assumed for a long time that he also had BPD, and convinced myself I was the narcissist. You’ve helped me see the truth of the situation. Ever so grateful.
This article brought back so many memories from my childhood. My mother has BPD and my father is a narcissist. All my life I thought that my mother was the weak one and my father some sort of superhuman that is always right (yes, he is very intellectual but lacks empathy) until I realized that he only cares about himself. When I was sick he left me to die (he couldn’t have cared less) but my mother at least bought me some food to eat. From that day I have been nicer to my mother and started gray rocking my father.
My ex narc tells people I have BPD that’s why I was so psycho in that marriage and had a nervous breakdown. Sadly, a lot of people believe that even though my evaluation from two doctors said I was in abusive marriage. You can’t change what others say about you but the idea of being diagnosed with BPD as a victim to a narcissist is scary and devastating.
I only found out I had BPD after my relationship with a narcissist. I think I fit in what they call “quiet” BPD. I work in health care very independent, loner and a high achiver, but if I ever tell the people around me the insane self-destructive behaviours I have no one would even believe. After just 2 months in this relationship I was in complete and total adoration of this person and in a complete mental breakdown. Started therapy because I felt I was going to break mentally and never come back. I was going quietly insane. My therapist informed me about the BPD and I was in shock because I knew the disorder very well but it never crossed my mind I had it. I knew I had “something” but I was not thinking about a personality disorder…. Stayed with him until I got to my limit but had the fortune to have friends on my side telling me to see the truth and giving me support. Otherwise I don’t know how it would have ended. I never got so low or cried so much, it still feels like something not real since I broke contact with him and have not seem or spoke to him for months. I have a really hard time to connect to people and I have never felt so connected to anyone like to this person. There were all kinds of violence involved and to sayvthe true I still adore him. I found some peace when I accepted I can still like him as long I keep him away. It does not make me a horrible person to like him even if he was just playing a game with me. Now I’m on therapy and medication. Knowing that I have BPD helps with dealing especially with my chronic emptiness/bored feelings and the medication has really helped with the ED.
My STBX, 50/50 NPD@BPD- undiagnosed as he won’t admit to anything but a possible anger issue. High functioning BPD, over 30 years it has been an emotional/abusive roller coaster, egg shell walking life fo my children and I. I’m blessed to have finally been educated and made aware of what we’ve all been dealing with, but just so incredibly sad it took so long to realize. Keep making people aware Dr. Ramini!❤️
Thank you Dr. Ramani! As I watched the merging of BPD with NPD in the narcissist, thankfully, I found a place of buoyancy and safety with DBT. It took several years of practicing DBT, daily, to finally not be overwhelmed constantly by the narcissistic abuse that was going on in the narcissist as she made my life a “living hell” with her chronic issues with BPD and NPD. Thank you so much for this so very insightful explanation today! This article is so so so very helpful! ❤️🙏🕊
My ex is a narcissist with BPD and I’m an empath. Our relationship was the perfect storm and everything that Dr Ramani describes in these articles happened, to a T!!! I finally got the courage to leave but I am still healing after almost 2 years. I would love to see more articles about this dual diagnosis, they are very cathartic for me. Thank you so much Dr Ramani!!!!
This is a touchy subject for me because when I confronted my family about their dysfunctional behavior and had to disconnect from them, they accused me of having a BPD. It was an exit strategy for them, label me and discard me. But the magic ingrédient for me was to see that they never questionned their own behavior, I was the only one who had to question himself. I’ve even put together a platfrom through which we could talk, but they never participated.
The combination narcissist and borderline description is very much like someone I’ve met. They were officially diagnosed borderline but there were a lot of things that didn’t add up. They were cold and calculated. Their actions were much less about seeking attention and more about punishing others for not providing attention. With that person in particular I sometimes wondered if they were genuinely psychopathic but I don’t know all of the nuance to know for sure.
Dr Ramani. I have narcissistic traits. After a breakdown with a diagnosed BPD, I looked into myself to find reasons. Your articles helped me enormously see parts of myself that I didnt like. As a result, I sought therapy and did work as a result. I am still on the journey but feel better and am recovering as a person. Thank you.
Got into a relationship with someone who said he had BPD and the relationship was excruciating. I was manipulated and abused and harassed until I had to question my own sanity and existence and had to run away even though at that time I had no idea what was going on. After perusal your articles, I realized that he seemed to have both narcissistic traits and BPD, and the dynamic between him and me is definitely narcissistic abuse. I got out but I still feel terrible about myself and what happened. This recovery journey is going to be a long one 🙏
Yes my ex was a BPD/NPD very dangerous alcholic with lots of guns. I left before the fights ended up physical… they were getting there with the holes in the wall. So much verbal abuse from him. I thought I could help him be the good person I saw in him. You and several books helped me reclaim my life back! ❤
Having grown up with a narcissistic mother and brother, I have too often found myself drawn to narcissistic relationships, romantic and friendship varieties. And I have myself struggled with BPD traits, OCD, PTSD, anxiety, and depression, all of which tie in with the narcissistic abuse, especially the BPD traits. The combination, BPD and narcissism, can be lethal. It’s highly destructive, and we tend to become kind of magnets for narcissists, when these are the very people we should be avoiding. Understanding what is occurring does help. Great article, thank you. 😀💖❤
I have become so ugly and cruel while managing this relationship with a narcissist. I am manipulating myself at this point. Idk why I don’t just leave. He makes it so clear he has no intention of caring. But my borderline push gets him to eventually say caring things amongst an issue. I don’t know why I do this. I don’t know why I’m manipulating myself. I realize this and still don’t have higher standards for myself to find something healthy or be okay on my own. Ai yai yai this is a mess
I recently bought one of Otto Kernberg’s books. The director of my grad program gave us a lecture on the borderline personality “organization” and he goes into the similarities of those two personality styles/structures. Amazing stuff! Glad you made this article. I imagine there are probably a LOT of people perusal who can relate due to relationships in their own life that may have mirrored this. It is important to note, though, that C-PTSD can often be mistaken for BPD. It’s also VERY true that BPDs can have tremendous empathy but NOT when in crisis mode. So thankful you pointed that out. I had experienced that ping-pong, confusing style with someone I know. Your comment on that has given me clarity to the confusing contradiction. Thank you for more wonderful articles Dr. Ramani!
This article was so relatable. I’ve been finally diagnosed with BPD because of the trauma I experienced after being in a malignant narcissistic relationship. I’ve been perusal your series on narcissism for the past year and a half- they helped me identify who I was dealing with.. and ultimately pushed me to get psychological help with therapy- where she was quick to see the signs of BPD. Now that I am understanding myself better, I realize why this relationship took such a toll on me. I of course got discarded which threw me into a deadly self distrustful path. I am prone to addiction as are narcissists, and developed a deadly opioid addiction because of my narc- it was another way he could control me as I know more now. I did not care if I lived or died. I have journal after journal of suicidal plans and what I wanted at my funeral. I was only 30-31 years old with so much ahead of me but I didn’t care. I was hopeless and empty. I knew he was the worst thing for me but the abandonment was unbearable. I have always dumped guys, this was the first to leave me- and now I know why. I always pulled away first in past relationships and sabotaged them before they could leave me. Dealing with the discard for a new supply, and dealing with a deadly addiction.. I’m happy to say after a year and a half and of pulling myself up and understanding myself more I’m still kicking and feel the Trauma bond has lifted or it is much better. I am being taken care of by regular therapy, medication ( anti depressants actually made me more suicidal) so I tried vyvance for adhd which I’ve also been diagnosed with- and it has put my dangerous addictive behaviour at bay- miraculously.
I have mainly quiet BPD traits and the therapy really does work! DBT & CBT Therapy saved many relationships with friends/family in my life and I can’t wait till I can go back to my DBT group therapy! I’m currently doing weekly therapy with a one on one therapist who’s amazing!!! I know how dangerous it is having a relationship with a narcissist is as my mom is a narcissist and she’s pushed me to suicide and both times I almost died! I know I’m far from being healed and probably will never fully heal and I also know it might take years but I don’t care! I’m willing to wait!!!
They share in common an unrealistic perception of what it means to be worthy of love. Narcissists cope by insisting they actually do meet those impossible expectations, borderlines cope by deciding that alone they may not, but when together with the right person they can. Everything else seems to flow from that.
BPD is the ultimate Anti Manipulation condition. It’s actually a blessing in disguise. A person with BPD will only put up with so much manipulation from a narcissist or others. This is why so many people go overboard casting BPD in harsh negative light. Most people want to be around people who are predictable.
Growing up with a father who probably had antisocial personality disorder, and a mother with bipolar and narcisistic maryter symptoms I grew up thinking dv was normal I had no sense of self. I fled seriously injured at 17. I got married and had a baby at 25. I was un able to understand a non manipulative relationship and I clung to my husband. He ended up cheating with another woman. I did have such insecurity and a never good enough complex. I did not know I had “disociative episodes when stressed” I also repressed my feelings, it triggered the dissociative episodes. It was terrifying waking up in ICU being told I was “depressed and had attempted suicide”. I did not know what the hell they were talking about. Having an arythmia was terrifying. I had so much pressure from every body that I did not understand what was happening. It traumatised my first husband. We split up and had a child custody battle to end all battles. I later found a new partner he was my “twin spirit” I thought. During that relationship I was diagnosed CPTSD, Dissociative episodes, QBPD, and anxiety, with depression. Acting out was not something I did, as a child it was not okay to have feelings. I repressed and imploded instead of exploding, so often therapists are fooled in to thinking I am doing good; but that is the repression talking. I don’t even know i’m doing it untill I have a dissociative episode, feeling detached and seperate from my own body. A person like me is so very vulnerable, and lonely.
Letting go of the narcissistic friend in my life and realising I’d rather be happy and alone than miserable with company; I’d never felt so free. I don’t think I would’ve gotten the diagnosis of BPD and worked to improve myself if I hadn’t taken that first step. I’ll always be really proud of myself for that.
I think I have quiet BPD, my husband and daughter has told me that I’m bipolar, at first I thought I probably was. Until I started learning about BPD. Hopefully I’ll see a professional one day, right now my daughter is seeing a professional. She started to get social anxiety, her “friends” would make fun of her for being “too skinny” (my sisters and I used to be skinny too). So now she feels like everyone is judging her, I’m always telling her that she’s prefect and beautiful. She had her first session on 05/11. I don’t want her to go through what I went through, what I’m still going through. I know I’ve had depression issues since I was 10-12, as a teenager I started to have anxiety. I used to write on notebooks, wish I’d kept them. Edit: my mood changes a lot. I could go from happy to sad to mad to happy within 30 min. It’s frustrating
My daughter has been diagnosed with BPD. I took the MMPI and scored high for depression and anxiety. Separately tested positive for ADHD mainly inattentive. I believe my family system is narcissistic. As a single mom at 17, the most narcissistic family members helped me raise her. She has never meant her dad or any of his family.
I was diagnosed with BPD recently. Unfortunately, I was also in a tumultuous relationship with a narcissist up until 2 months ago. Trying to make sense of it all still. Knowing and learning about my diagnosis has significantly helped me understand why I chose to stay as long as I did. I have a deep fear of abandonment. He knew this. Now i see that he would almost dangle himself in front of me, he’d leave me for days, by myself, no contact, knowing it hurt me. He’d return and expect things to be fine. But I would burst into fits of rage and extreme sadness. He’d comfort me sometimes. Other times he’d say, “Of course I don’t want to come home to you, just look how you’re acting!” It was so confusing. He’d guilt me into thinking I was the reason he was leaving, and so the cycle would continue. Not to mention, he physically abused me and said i “forced his hand”. He put me through extreme highs and lows. I played a part in the downfall of the relationship due to my extreme emotional shifts. We were toxic for each other. I just hope to heal from not only his abuse but from my abuse to myself.
I am an addict and I was in a relationship with an addict. Through our addiction we both hurt each other very much the chemical changes in my brain that I will cause by my drug use, in my opinion, had me exhibiting traits of borderline personality disorder and in my partner, I believe the drug use exacerbated any underlying narcissistic tendencies that he had. Now this is just my opinion but I think I’m pretty spot on. The relationship became toxic and we hurt each other very much to the point where it wasn’t just pain it was trauma. This trauma has us both ruminating the relationship which is a sign of PTSD. We can label ourselves all day long in a relationships and behaviors. I think we do this to find acceptance and justification in our behaviors. My goal is to no longer look for the acceptance and justification but follow through with the healing and instead of living in the past and what was I am trying to remain present and look towards a happy future.
I have anger and despair but I thought it was because I have experienced three of the top stressors; loss of family, loss of job, loss of home… not once but 2 – 3 times for each due to the policies of government during covid. I was basically thrown into extreme poverty. I had to move 3 times because my landlords decided to sell, after having the promise of a long term commitment. My current landlord is notified me after also having a long term commitment, that she is now selling. I have just started a night job after a year of unemployment. I have no time off coming to me, or money for another expensive move. I need to fix my truck so I can get to work. My doctor wants me to do tests I cannot afford because of my heart issues. Am I a paranoid, personality disorder because I am angry at how this country has treated single working class women over 55 years ( the biggest demographic of discrimination)? I find Dr. Ramani’s articles extremely helpful but to never address the narcissistic classism and politics in this country is paramount to social engineering. I think if Goebbels had discovered modern day pop psychology Hitler would have won the war
My mother was murdered when I was a little girl and I was moved away from all of my family at the same time to live in a different country with my alcoholic father. I definitely definitely have BPD and struggled immensely but nothing helped me more than believing the gospel and accepting Jesus Christ as my Lord and savior. God will give you a new life and heart. I pray this message reaches someone. My symptoms are minimal compared to what they once were if not totally gone and they were crippling every part of my life before.
Bingo.., THANKYOU.. spot on.. Im perusal all your articles. I can forgive myself. (Child of two narcs.. scapegoat) Ive been working hard on myself. Im happy with my life. Im learning WHAT to do when feelings hit. (Not perfect but Im feeling good in myself for how far Ive come in myself) Narcs can smell a BPD a mile away.. They rely on abandonment issues to feed their ego. (Its like narc parents train their scapegoat children to accept that role as the “best theyre going to get”). Empathy in a BPD is spot on. It switches over to self preservation if stressed. This has been validated.. Thankyou.. (This WILL save a life)
I was diagnosed with BPD a little over a year and a half ago. Living with a mother who is a narcissist is quite difficult and I have found over the years things have just been getting worse each and everyday. I am the one in the family that is usually emotionally neglected by my mother and it has gotten to the point the point that everyone in my family has started neglecting me too. It’s so hard because I have no escape. My younger sister on the other hand has started developing traits of a narcissist but I have no way of proving such as she is still too young to be diagnosed however she is coddled by my mother and nothing that she does is wrong especially when it comes to her treating me the way my mother does because in their eyes, there is absolutely nothing wrong with driving me into depression and having multiple panic attacks day in and day out. If I cry, I am looking for attention. If I am sad, I am looking for attention and God Forbid that I am happy or smiling because that is a crime. I have reached the point where I am crying everyday and it never gets seen, everything I am feeling right now is disregarded.
Both Narcissistic and BDP at same person I ensure you is real hell for everybody around. I am still dealing with one person that has caused my and relatives and also his relatives so much trouble and pain and chaos. The main issue is that he refused any professional help and blame to the others about everything. Rage and paranoid thoughts mixed the whole time. Sometimes days of lucidity and despair after a episode of trouble but starting again manipulation, lies and abuse. Substance abuse, loss of job, paranoia and re-start again. We should have to block any contact with him.
THIS IS THE ONE. I’m here! 🙏🏾🙏🏾🙏🏾 In the middle of divorcing my narc as we speak 🙏🏾 Once I realized what was going on: I demanded divorce. I wish I could say I never looked back, but I did. I’m so thankful, however, she is/was the piece of work she is. It kept us apart, and nothing better could have happened to me.
Dr Ramani, I just wanted to message to say thank you for making your articles. I have followed your articles for the best part of 2 years, they have been my lifeline through some really trying times. I had therapy for a number of years and, my therapist in kindness, never officially diagnosed me with a particular personality disorder. However, at the end of our treatment, I did ask about BPD and whether I had it. She was gracious and in a nutshell said in some round about way, that I’ve progressed and don’t need to fall into that criteria. I have to be honest, I do fall into a stereotypical description of ‘quiet BPD’. The more I learn about this, the more a lot of my life makes sense. In all honesty, I wish my therapist did tell me I had this personality disorder, because all I’ve ever wanted is to understand the reason why my life has worked out the way it has. Thankfully, I am due to see a psychologist within the coming months, so I hope to get some form of clear diagnosis. I’m open to accepting an uncomfortable truth such as having BPD. The one thing however that has brought a lot of questions to my mind, was the fact I have suffered so much narcissistic abuse. I haven’t been able to understand, that if I have BPD, how is it I have been the one that has been bullied, rather than the other way around. So often, BPD is described as being the violent, abusive one. I have all the emptiness and instability, yet I have been the one who has suffered abuse from others. As noted, I’m open to accepting traits of BPD in myself.
Hi! I’m soooo glad and happy that I came across this article again! I have BPD and I had a relationship with a narcissist and it was a huge huge huge mess for me it was sooo awful that was my experience with the relationship that I had with a narcissist. You were definitely spot on talking about the abandonment for sure. Honestly I wasn’t perfect in this relationship with him and I made huge mistakes and I honestly learned a lot as well.
Dr. Ramani, thank you for educating us. I was on a very toxic relationship, and managed to get out. She was restricting me from seeing my friends, she put a GPS on me, and attempting to damage my reputation at work, friends and family so I can only rely on her, gaslighting and attempting to control my life and many many nore. All the traits you mentioned, my ex had it. I wish I saw your articles sooner. Thank you!
WE APPRECIATE YOU DR. RAMANI!!!! Acces to mental health services is difficult and frustrating for many (myself included) and this page has been such a empowering and accessible educational resource. So grateful for you and this space you have facilitated for these wonderful and candid convos to take place. I would still be in my narcissistically abusive relationship if it wasn’t for your website ❤️ I have bpd and some narc tendencies Im becoming aware of but I want to become stable and come out of the survival mode and despair and I’m looking forward to focusing the work on myself instead of trying to “rescue” others. I neeed the rescuing and I’m finally at a place where I value myself juussst enough to do that. Learning boundaries when I never even saw what or knew what that was is a challenge so boundaries 101 advice is always welcome 🙏🏼❤️❤️ but am going to research resources on dbt on my own. My therapist which is working with me pro bono just had major jaw surgery! So I’m on my own for a while but with this community and these resources and my own place I know I can keep doing the work for myself. Thank you again Dr 🦋 Any one else who has resources on DbT they recommend please comment them below! 🙏🏼
It’s about time someone addresses this and Im not surprised at all that it is you. Thank you Dr. Ramani. There’s just nothing out there that addresses some of the more extreme symptoms that can occur over time with someone with BPD. I dont say this to lessen anyone’s pain because this kind of abuse will break even the most well-balanced person and I would say for someone that is aware of their BPD you can keep it in check for a long time but it’s exhausting and eventually it will break you like it does all victims. And that is where things get scary for someone with BPD. I was starting to experience dissociative states and even stress-induced psychosis. I knew my feelings and reactions were always on the more extreme side but the info out there on Narcissistic Abuse Syndrome and PTSD never mentions the end stage symptoms for a BPD. Its devastating. I think most people can recover. I still have hope for myself but as someone with BPD I can tell you that over time it gets harder and harder. You may have had issues with your identity at times but if you made it this far you DID have a core identity that was all the things most borderlines strive for and see in others but dont recognize in themselves. You WERE strong and resourceful and vulnerable and compassionate. You were all those things. Even at your low points there was something in you that fought and bounced back. I always bounced back but the day will come when you can’t even tap into that part of your personality anymore and then every single interreaction with your abuser will trigger you to shut down.
I have BPD and was in narcissistic relationship for 5 hours. Dr. Ramani described it almost to the core! The breaking up and getting back together especially. It was a relationship that did a lot of damage to me, no doubt. I’ve been in treatment for BPD for over 4 years now and I can say I really am completely different and navigate through life in a much different and healthier way.
I could have just fast forwarded to 10 minutes in and listened until the end and that’s my ex. Of course she’s diagnosed(just a few sessions into treatment) with bipolar 2 because she hasn’t told her therapist ANYTHING that would remotely resemble an accurate depiction(the truth) of her behavior in relationships because of the narcissism. I often wonder if, when she’s destroyed EVERYONE she has left and herself is all she has to blame, she’ll ever admit she’s a mess. My hopes dwindle by the day.
Your podcasts enlighten the confusion and help making lots of sense all of the sudden. Thank you for that. At the notes I couldn’t find further information specific to this article. Especially the overlapping between NP and BP. I would appreciate it if someone can point out where the resources are mentioned (not the general hotlines). Thank you again
I’m new to your website. I was diagnosed with Borderline personality disorder and PTSD due to severe childhood sexual trauma. I entered into a marriage with a person with Narcissistic personality. I’m currently a physician and did DBT for 2 years with great results. I’m in the middle of a divorce now. The better I got the healthier I got the worse he became. Domestic violence got worse. The narcissism got worse. But in the beginning the suicide ideation and attempts were horrendous. And he got everyone to hate me. I thank you for this article.
I would like to know more about how to tell the difference. I believe my stbx is a narcissist. When I left, he spun into a deep depression with suicidal thoughts. He’s currently in DBT therapy, which leads me to believe his therapist thought he might have BPD. But BPD can be treated and narcissism cannot. How can I know for sure which one he is?
I suspect my second Narc ex’s wife has BPD. It explains why she is willing to be married to a man who, in response to his 7 year old comic book store closing, chose to immerse himself further into his violent/paranoid themed article gaming 12 hours a day, almost every day (he has to eat & use the bathroom at some point) and has never tried to bounce back and pursue a stable, long lasting career. He needs a wife who is emotionally unstable enough in her own right to voluntarily commit to such a crappy life (they now live with his mother out of state).
Having a borderline mother and father I can say that their “empathy” isn’t really empathy. They project their emotions, their thoughts, their experiences onto the other person and believe it’s the other person’s emotions. My mother would always tell me all the time that she literally felt my pain. So one day I asked her exactly what she believed I was feeling and she was so off, I was actually shocked. I thought she would get it a little off but it was so far out of reality and it matched how SHE was feeling, not how I was feeling. This was the reality of my relationship with my parents, especially my mother. I also have extended family members as well as ex friends with the diagnosis and it’s the same with them too. They genuinely believe they feel others emotions and experience empathy but from my experience it’s all just projection. Or they try and people-please just so they don’t get abandoned, in other words it doesn’t come from a genuine place of care for another but a place of desperation for not wanting to be abandoned. It’s selfish. My mother would hold all the nice things she would do for me (none of which I asked for, many times it was forced on me) over my head whenever I fell from the pedestal she forced me up on.
This episode made my understanding that not only the person I’m dealing with is a narcissist but he also has a borderline personality disorder as well. All the things you described in this article he is. Been in the process of leaving this relationship. I must say I found myself in this relationship for far to long. I have been in school earning my degree in psychology and he has been my biggest case study, but at this point the relationship has been extremely toxic and I have no other choice but to move on. The part that sucks is that throughout the years we have formed a bond but it’s not worth the abuse. Thank you so much Dr. Ramani for blessing all of us with the true!!!!!
this article is very hard for me to listen to, because this was my previous relationship… This comment doesn’t even touch a little of i went through, but it is long…… My ex was 4 different people when she was with her family, with me(in person, and not in person), and with her friends. Around her family, she would say things to them to shock them about us. She would purposly give me hickies, knowing i hate those, just so her parents could see. With me(in person), she would love bomb and tell me she wants to be with me forever, how she sees her future with me, how she’d want to have my children if i couldnt, etc. When i wasnt with her she’s retract everything she’d one said to me(doesnt want to get married, doesnt want kids, cant see her future, etc). She’d avoid me and look for any reason to not speak to me(example: If i mentioned i had a headache, if she saw me post online in the middle of the night).She’d stop talking to be if i was being supportive of her, if i wanted to help her; and she’d stop talking to me if she felt i wasn’t being supportive enough, and if i didn’t ask if she wanted help. She’d write sucidal notes while one the phone with me, talk about how she got pills, just so she coudl get mad at me, for beign upset. She’d also go on twitter to talk about how she doesnt have anyone who supports her, or she’ll glorify someone she knew to get to me… She’d look for anything to fight me, so she could run to her friends and talk shit, and she did that so they woudlnt abandon her.
My supposedly narc ex best friend would intentionally bring topics about BPD, Narcissism, Psychosis, Anxiety, even when I asked her not to bring that up as I was really in a confused state, very low on confidence and couldn’t figure out what was happening with me. I was in such a bad state that I’d start thinking “Am I Narcissist/ do I have BPD/ am I psycho?” She even once asked me during those time “is your mental health okay?” I confronted her saying “why would you ask me something like that when you know I’m struggling mentally?” She said “I was just kidding.” I believed her and didn’t mind as I was very close to her. But the pattern continued and I again confronted her “who jokes about something like that?” Her reply was “I actually asked seriously but then realised I shouldn’t have asked that. So, I said I was joking. But I realized I can’t lie to you. You will catch me.” I’m realizing how bad I was being treated while I actually write this here.
I remember my ex-bf (Narc) had just broken off a short relationship with a girl just before we began dating. I ran into her once and honestly I couldn’t figure out why he would break it off with her because I found her to be very pretty, kind and warm. I later heard he’d told his close friend that she was “too nice”. Years later I fully understood, he wanted someone he could trigger easily. Worst 4 years of my life.
This is so interesting to me. I have self destructive BPD with high-ish narcissistic traits and moderate to high sociopathic traits. My “favourite person” is very complex. I was pretty sure she has BPD for almost as long as we’ve been friends, but never asked as I wasn’t sure how self aware or ok she was with that. She’s had therapy on and off for a long time and says her daughter has been diagnosed with BPD (which I believe to be accurate). After several months of becoming closer friends, she did tell me that she’s been diagnosed with BPD, as I suspected. Her mother had strong controlling narcissistic traits, and possibly full NPD, and my FP has had abandonment issues and other traumas (CPTSD that has been kind of piled upon by subsequent trauma events) since the age of 7. She’s very self aware about 2/3 of the time and is aware of the extent of her despair and her problems, but the other third of the time she loses control, screams, throws things, basically has a tantrum and projects everything outward, blaming others, even people who betrayed her 40 years ago (she never directs this at me). She also has quite a lot of NPD traits, and I often try to work out if she has full blown NPD as well as BPD. I honestly don’t know. We very rarely fight. We’re both Librans and understand each other very well. For now! lol
Because of the abuse and the way I reacted which totally out of character for me. Also the cognitive dissonance I thought I had undiagnosed bpd and I told the narcissist ex girlfriend this because I had most of the symptoms.. I was really suffering badly from Narcissistic abuse syndrome. I even admitted to things that I hadn’t done because I couldn’t believe someone who “loved me” would be doing these things on purpose.. I blamed myself for everything and became very ill.. I swear she was trying to get me to kill myself.. she is pure evil!
I am seeing a new therapist for narcissistic abuse: licensed psychologist and energy healer who said that I have Bpd. I didn’t agree. He was telling me that I look 18 and I am so beautiful. That evening he found me on Messenger and started sending me inappropriate pictures. I blocked him immediately. He is married. I am terrified and haven’t been back obviously Does anyone have any advice on what I can do?
Malevolent Past Partners Could Trigger My “Crisis” Flashbacks that was an Ugly Snowball Over Time…. My Doc was Able to Gratefully Point it Out to me . A LiL over a Year Ago I explained the overwhelm I Felt Despite the Stimulus Not Calling for such Extreme Systematic Distress, and once I used all my Coping in Solidarity without more stress Compounding it (Sad that I still was not able to Call for Help…) The Feeling Just Drained Away by Sunrise… which also felt Confusing. Grateful I Chose Not to Keep it a Secret From my Doc, Awareness helps Encourage the Mindfulness… I am Truly Safe💕☤
That sounds 100% like me, I had a horrific narcissistic mother, she stopped all contact with me after I finally figured out that she wasn’t just cruel& crazy, but the she was a 100% narcissist, and I told her to her face along with a few well deserved other things. ( the back lash she gave back was horrific for saying exactly what was on my mind, whew! Took me decades of pain before I started seeing this type of help that you and others give, thank god, because there was NO help in the late 60’s& 70’s when I was stuck with her to “care” for me. Dropping me off on dark little country roads& not coming back for at least a half hour, (I’d be crying, scared to death, she not only made me feel like I’m a nothing, and my brother ” everything,” she thought him to hate me till the day he died, and I I still suffer with ups& downs on a daily basis, feeling like a nothing, No relationship worked, wether I picked people that hurt me subconsciously, or they were in general, good. It was the together, then running away, then back together type of situation. I sometimes withdraw& can’t even leave my place except for grocery shopping, and taking my dog for a run, usually in old graveyards, so that way I don’t run into many people. It DEFINITELY has gotten much worse with age. Because of all this, my mother also physically hurt me also, the mental much worse, I am on Disability, and really never made it like a normal person in life, like ” why was I even born” I can’t really get certain special treatments as you mentioned in your article, that you say helps, even though it sounds interesting.
I was with someone who told me very early on that he had ADHD, I was quick to use that as the intellectual reason for all of his perks and quirks. But then I noticed that every half a year or so his personality would kind of change. Not at core, but his basic behaviors and sometimes beliefs. It all seemed to be connected to me and my growth as well, so when I changed my mind he would too. Last year we had both been traveling and when we got beck together he was so anxious from being away from me that he kind of acted narcissistic. When I calmed him down, he told me he felt empty and I assumed he shut out his emotions to protect himself. He would misinterpret any of my actions for having something to do with him, assuming that I was dismissing him. When I wasn’t. He told me he thought we were soulmates, twin flames, and then he kind of ignored me. It got better, and a few months later he was really really kind, warm and sensitive, he’d always had that in him but this time it was just, his heart on his sleeve. Everything went well until I thought that he wanted my opinion when he didn’t. When we first met, we were young, he seemed healthy in general but i noticed some red flags in his perception of reality.. it was so intriguing though, I was pulled to understand his spiritual beliefs.
My BPD diagnosed ex wife tells everybody she suffered “narc abuse”. I was in therapy 6 months to pull myself out of depression after the sudden discard. I would have done anything for her. It’s been 9 months and I’m not ready to date. I didn’t rebound or do anything like that. I will date when I’m ready. I have so much resentment and anger for her and so much fear of being hurt. Im pretty happy and doing good now. I got majority custody. I hope I meet somebody but I would rather be single the rest of my life than ever let somebody hurt me like that again.
Wow, you just described my sister to a tee in the BPD and Narcissism combined. Her husband just went into remission from Cancer, in which she used his illness for her own Narcissistic supply, and there were more than a few of us who actually verbalized that she was going to get hurt somehow. Sure enough she fell and broke her leg. One would think that no one would actually try to break their leg, but she has had so many injuries from crazy falls or accidents. When we are with her we are constantly trying to keep her from tripping, falling, etc, and this explains so much!
I had a bpd mom and a narc dad. It was hell on earth. There’s no one gonna throw you under the bus faster than a bpd mom trying not to get abandoned by her narc husband…and then show up an hour later trying to be your bff and crying because you aren’t kissing her butt constantly. We were just pawns and toys to her in her game but nothing was ever her fault. Funny enough she ignored all trauma she caused while talking nonstop about her trauma.
So about all I can look at today, is safety in our minds I can’t change what happened for my daughter, I can change what happened to her, I can only change shake off the lack of response I feel others have, I know I did the best I could do under the situations I was given at the time. I did the best I could do, no matter what others think of me or choose to diagnose me with. Thanks for your efforts in the articles.
My ex was diagnosed with BPD and was really abusive towards me and my son. There were moments where she started shouting at our 6 month old son just for crying. Once she destroyed my son’s bedroom door with a pair of scissors because she got mad at me. When we met I thought she was really empathetic, but living with her, her needs always came first. She didn’t even liked going in the car next to my son. She wanted him to go in his baby sit in the back and she wanted to be on the front next to me perusal her social media on the phone. If I asked her to go next to him, she would rage. I had to asked for a shared custody after we split and the forensic exam described her as highly impulsive and aggressive, self centered, putting her needs above everyone else, she could easily change moods so it was impossible to predict her reactions. I just don’t know if borderlines are as abussive as narcissists or my ex has BPD with narcissistic traits.
I am on the right track. I am doing the work to get through this. Thank you to you and your team. My therapist was really good. We decided to part ways because she didn’t have enough substance-abuse education. She did end up saying we did a lot of work in a short period of time and started a great foundation. I did push back on a bipolar diagnosis because I need to see that diagnosis clearly without any chemical or protracted withdrawal symptoms. I’m starting to see people sit in that neurosis borderline psychosis fault line, insert LA pun here! The thing that struck me in this article that I didn’t know was that it was characterized by instability first, rather than abandonment and empathyI suppose all those things just sit together in the diagnosis at the top. I do not have suicidal ideation though. She said substance-abuse filled that void just fine. I am so happy I’m on the road to real recovery finally.
Sounds very familiar, still remember it 30 years later. She ignored me for 2 years, then exploded in displays of infatuation which shocked and scared me, when she cooled off avoided me and later passed by like I didn’t even exist. Got back with her jealous and cheating boyfriend and was pregnant in no time, looking even more crushed than before. Started smoking and continued nonstop for many year. Tremendous drama considering that she spoke to me once in three years, while trying to get rid of the cheating boyfriend. She always looked at the ground while walking and talked very rarely. Her face would light up when she noticed that someone liked her, but she was sullen without attention.
Thank you Dr. Ramani. I had a friendship with a woman with BPD. She is a wonderful, kind, caring and intelligent person but the problem was with consistency. It was impossible to draw healthy boundaries with her. Her fear of abandonment was very intense, but sadly it’s that issue that finally made me walk way. Abandonment was a self fulfilling prophecy. She tended to get into romantic relationships with narcissists that were, of course, very unhealthy. It must be such a difficult condition to have.
I left a narcissist back in March 2022- and I suspect I have pure BPD, though I have a bipolar and c-PTSD diagnosis. My main symptom is unwarranted and extreme anger, though I also struggle with codependency and fear of abandonment. I can also be incredibly manipulative and controlling- something I’m working through in therapy. Manipulating people and projecting onto others isn’t OK. Thanks Dr. Ramani for addressing this!
Hello there 🙂 I had watched your other article with Medcircle as well, in regards to the 4 types. I have a friend who was diagnosed with bpd and it wasn’t until him, that we clued in that I check all the boxes. Your articles have been so helpful to clue in that I have bpd most likely, and I brings me so much happiness because It finally makes sense to why I am the way I am. However, I was wondering on your opinion on having all four bpd types. My appointment isn’t until May and I believe I have all four. Thank you for sharing these, as I’ve lived with this since a child, and now I’m 32 and. I’m just discovering this of me and it’s because of everyone ! ❤❤
You almost start to feel sorry for them, because it is something that is out of their control. This entire article literally describes my ex. She has borderline personality disorder and was extremely manipulative, toxic, and narcissistic. The one thing that brought me closer to her was her background, she described her traumas and I felt empathy towards her, I wanted to help her to the best of my ability. But this disease is not something that can be cured through love or counseling whatsoever, its incurable. I stayed around just because of that fact alone, “it’s not their fault so accept them for who they are and work through the red flags.” Worst thing I’ve ever done in my life, I’m now left with that mental tormentor in my head and an even lesser self-esteem. Before I used to be so secure, right now I just feel so much shame about myself. Internally I think of myself as ugly but clearly I’m not if I was able to acquire multiple partners throughout my life. I feel inadequate to hold conversations or look people in their eyes but my therapist says I do just fine and am able to convey my words perfectly. This is like a virus in my head and I feel a sickness. I was her favorite person and she put me on this high pedestal that made me feel like I was in control of her entire reality. Like I was in charge of her emotions, it’s very unfair and overwhelming to have so much expectations placed on you. Not only that but how much they pump up your name to other people, its very traumatizing whether you realize it or not.
I got out of a relationship with someone with BPD who was raised by a malignant narcissist. I had to get a protective order on him last year bc he really can’t let go…I am still healing with the ‘fleas’ of an overwrought very very painful 8 years of everything you described. Sometimes I wonder if narcissists, like the dad of my ex, in essence groomed him into becoming borderline vs it being purely genetic- bc sometimes, especially at the end, I felt I was borderline, developing and demonstrating little borderline tendencies just by living with him, as he must have developed all that he did just being around his narcissistic evil dad… I don’t know. I wonder about it a lot. The cycles in both types and the overlaps were extremely helpful. I’ve been waiting for this article for ages.!!! Thank you Dr. Ramani. ♥️
I’ve often wondered about borderline vs covert narcissism where my relationship was concerned. I noticed a lot of “copying” behavior, trying to do what I did, wear what I wear, etc… but then making it their idea or all about them. When a change happened in my life, that they felt like they couldn’t control or make about them… there was a year long tantrum that happened. I was not and am not totally sure about if that was fear of abandonment or fear of just not being able to take something away from me. As per usual, eventually it ended with it all being blamed on me. And some gaslighting to where I just had to remove myself from things where we would overlap. I tried for about a year after I stopped having the friendship to apologize for my wrong behavior, way of handling things. I don’t recommend this. It was used against me. All of their bad behavior has been forgotten by them, and the people who enable them. But I’m here like… well, I can say what I did wrong, and I just wanted to live my life, and resolve the problems in the relationship by talking about it. I’m still confused by it. And confused by maybe what was/is going on with them.
Apparently Sam Vaknin calls the borderline a ‘failed narcissist’ which I’m not sure is a good or bad thing but I do understand where they overlap. The one difference between me and the narc is I actually feel remorse, regret, shame, disgust and I desperately want to be a better person for those that truly love me, like my kids
I’ve never leaned into the DBT skills more than in a relationship with a person w NPD. I mean, I thought I was actually losing my mind. I felt the contempt and disgust, and I interpreted a discard coming on and tried to pour in more love, then do the dance, and I just made the situation progressively worse. The rage I showed myself, omg…almost ended up inpatient AGAIN. I’m at a point with treatment where I can just STOP, opposite action, or ask for what I need more effectively in a DEARMAN, and COPE Ahead for either outcome. I mean, I still have my days and challenges. I’ve only been in treatment for a year. And I’m able to have compassion for them without giving away all the compassion and respect for myself.
Even without Clinical terms like npd / bpd, relationships depend on compatibility to work, like musical chords, some harmonise and some clash. As borderline is characterised by poor self identity it’s easier to gaslight and blame/manipulate bpd people. I don’t think that borderlines try to hurt or use others with intent unlike narcissistic traits in my experience. My 21 year relationship was typical of the push pull on off nature of bpd with narcissists. My partner was very dismissive and self preoccupied, created lots of drama and chaos and was very moody and disorganised with adhd and ocd traits as well. As I got better with therapy she grew worse triggering those old bpd fears with clear intent to punish me for becoming more independent and less controllable. She never takes any accountability, only blames me for our problems. I’ve left that relationship now and although I still feel for her I came to accept we’re just not right for each other. The anxieties and stress are less now, and I’m happier out of the dramas and more optimistic in general.
I got out of an abusive marriage, then got diagnosed with BPD and given domestic abuse counselling; I don’t like armchair diagnosing but we started with so much empathy for one another’s traumas, then ended with one of us definitely taking the abusive upper hand (I would not be surprised if she had NPD, but she never wanted any help and would always say she “had no time” for therapy)
The love of my life had her NPD/BPD in remission for years. A crisis popped up, and our intimacy intensified because I was trying to support her because of the crisis. It caused her to act psychotic, almost like our intimacy was manifesting like a drug addiction. The silent treatments beat me down. She discarded me when I had no energy left. I had to go N.C & walk away. It has been so hard.
So what about the therapist that are NOT specialized in diagnosing these mental health conditions and then labeling the patient; thereby, causing serious damage . In my case, a counselor started labeling based on a book 📚 but not on her credentials and encouraged the demise of my marriage- seemed like irresponsible counseling. That person created so much instability in my marriage. It’s hard to trust another counselor.
After my 17 year marriage ended, my children had counselling sessions at their schools . Both suggested that their mother was a narcessist and made clear that there was very little chance of changing her. Recently, I have watched several articles, particularly from Dr Ramani, and I have come to the conclusion that I have BPD. Our marriage was extremely volatile, I was always aware that I was doing everything around the home, looking after our children and her father. In the end, after trying every different angle I could think of, we separated, I thought temporarily, after my daughter told her mum to leave. It was only after their mum left that my children told me some of their experiences of their mum’s narcissism, they just said that they didn’t bring it up with me because they were hoping she might change. I think one of the most important techniques I learned to deal with my anger was to explain in front of my family exactly why I was angry rather than assuming it was obvious. This usually caused my wife to abruptly cut short the conversation, most times without addressing what I had said. It wasn’t a solution to the problem, but less damaging to me that losing my temper. I now have a fantastic relationship with my children, better than I could ever have imagined. I am single and I with to stay that way, I would be frightened of losing myself in another relationship, I am not cured, I have just removed myself from a situation I don’t feel qualified to cope with. I like myself a lot more, I feel less empty and alone.
Stoicism helped me a great deal regarding BPD. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy was developed based off of Stoicism. I recommend The Enchiridion by Epictetus. It’s a good start to Stoicism as a whole. I don’t have BPD anymore and that is most because of years of reframing my thoughts and really looking at the deep rooted emotions that stemmed from conditionings that, while geared to protect me in past situations as a child, were not helpful as an adult. I did Journaling in the 3rd person to assist in stepping away from the emotions enough to see where they stemmed from and why they were formed. Once I was able to learn how to manage my emotions and develop more mental resilience and trust in myself, I don’t battle with myself as much anymore. And when I have something hurtful happen, I do my best to process it in as healthy of a way as possible and not let it ruin the foundations that I finally built for my life.
I got diagnosed with BPD. I was with a narcissist for 2yrs. My BPD reached a whole different level and I couldn’t control myself through the spells I would have caused by my boyfriend who had a way of triggering my mood. When he isn’t around me I slowly heal and begin to feel like more of myself but when I’m around him I’m playing tug of war with my emotions which makes me feel unease,uncomfortable,depressed,lonely,upset,and invisible. My boyfriend toyed with my emotions also used me as a human puppet for his twisted game he was playing with me.
My narcissist sister is now telling people she was diagnosed with BPD and that is why she reacts the way she does and that people should understand and not hold it against her. Im still not buying it and I feel like now she’s using it as an excuse to treat people the way she does and not be held accountable for it.
In that relationship the highs are so high you can’t imagine. Good days are straight out of a fairy tale. But also lows are so low you can see last level of hell. And the whole relationship is like a Yo Yo. Either really close, which is when fear of abandonment issues start to kick in for both which cause fights over stupid things which leads to distance. You never really know what will happen or what sets your partner off. Extremely toxic but the sensation of love is so good you can’t have it with someone else.
This sounds like what I’m dealing with my BF now. I think he has both. 😥 I ended the relationship and I am really uncomfortable in one sense but I’m better not being around him. There was always a sense of disgust for me in rage outbursts and I would notice a paranoia about everything. He would want me to make the phone calls to doctor appointments, paying Bill’s, refill meds, go with him to Dr appts, worry over business in his store, crisis with his grown children, ect…. he would always say ” you said you would help me but you just are and evil person and walk out, just like everybody else” 😖 I’ve helped him for years and its always a disorganized chaotic mess. Every week he would get okay and then rage at me over something that completely makes no sense and blame me as if I’m out to screw him over. Now it goes again into this thing like he is so over the edge that I dont know if he will hurt himself or not. He absolutely refuses to get help and says I’m crazy. What to do but end it. I survived a covert narc relationship 22 years ago and it was horrible. But I did get treatment and with time have recovered. I have lows sometimes but meds help me manage so its few. With my Bf now, the emotional abuse has gotten to the point that you cant even have a conversation with him at all without him throwing everything at me in a very uncooperative, abusive way. It’s crazy. Anyway, it bothers me but I dont go back to him 😥 I just try to paint and take one day at a time for me